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Income Tax
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| Shakka |
Wise words from a former IRS Tax Commissioner...
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"Congress went beyond merely enacting an income tax law and repealed Article IV of the Bill of Rights, by empowering the tax collector to do the very things from which that article says we were to be secure. It opened up our homes, our papers and our effects to the prying eyes of government agents and set the stage for searches of our books and vaults and for inquiries into our private affairs whenever the tax men might decide, even though there might not be any justification beyond mere cynical suspicion.
The income tax is bad because it has robbed you and me of the guarantee of privacy and the respect for our property that were given to us in Article IV of the Bill of Rights. This invasion is absolute and complete as far as the amount of tax that can be assessed is concerned. Please remember that under the Sixteenth Amendment, Congress can take 100% of our income anytime it wants to. As a matter of fact, right now it is imposing a tax as high as 91%. This is downright confiscation and cannot be defended on any other grounds.
The income tax is bad because it was conceived in class hatred, is an instrument of vengeance and plays right into the hands of the communists. It employs the vicious communist principle of taking from each according to his accumulation of the fruits of his labor and giving to others according to their needs, regardless of whether those needs are the result of indolence or lack of pride, self-respect, personal dignity or other attributes of men.
The income tax is fulfilling the Marxist prophecy that the surest way to destroy a capitalist society is by steeply graduated taxes on income and heavy levies upon the estates of people when they die.
As matters now stand, if our children make the most of their capabilities and training, they will have to give most of it to the tax collector and so become slaves of the government. People cannot pull themselves up by the bootstraps anymore because the tax collector gets the boots and the straps as well.
The income tax is bad because it is oppressive to all and discriminates particularly against those people who prove themselves most adept at keeping the wheels of business turning and creating maximum employment and a high standard of living for their fellow men.
I believe that a better way to raise revenue not only can be found but must be found because I am convinced that the present system is leading us right back to the very tyranny from which those, who established this land of freedom, risked their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to forever free themselves..."
T. Coleman Andrews. Andrews Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service for three years, from 1953 until 1955. |
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| occrider |
| I owe the bastards $1500 :(. |
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| verndogs |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
I owe the bastards $1500 :(. |
did you claim any exemptions at all? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by verndogs
did you claim any exemptions at all? |
No. It's from dividends and a portion of my income that was untaxed. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
No. It's from dividends and a portion of my income that was untaxed. |
Hell, I got a nice chunk of change back....then they called me on an error in my 2003 tax return and I had to turn around and send 'em $1200 back! Bastards indeed! |
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| George Smiley |
Ever wonder why everyone that complains about this kind of tax system is not poor? Funny that...yet do the poor get a voice? We keep hearing all these rich people moaning cos they pay more tax (only on that part of their wage that is in the higher bracket I might add). FFS are these people struggling to make ends meat or summat?!
America is aleady the worst country in the west to live in cos of crime and poverty, I would absolutely love it if for just, lets say, one decade, for all you rich people to have your way and you all keep your money and do not help the poor - you might as well be living in some war torn African country! Your country would go to pot. There would be riots across the country! Are you people incapable of seeing things from a perspective that is not looking down from the top of society?!
(ps, the tax man owes me £500 ($950) so ha!) |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Ever wonder why everyone that complains about this kind of tax system is not poor? Funny that...yet do the poor get a voice? We keep hearing all these rich people moaning cos they pay more tax (only on that part of their wage that is in the higher bracket I might add). FFS are these people struggling to make ends meat or summat?!
America is aleady the worst country in the west to live in cos of crime and poverty, I would absolutely love it if for just, lets say, one decade, for all you rich people to have your way and you all keep your money and do not help the poor - you might as well be living in some war torn African country! Your country would go to pot. There would be riots across the country! Are you people incapable of seeing things from a perspective that is not looking down from the top of society?!
(ps, the tax man owes me £500 ($950) so ha!) |
I'd be willing to argue(at least for me), that paying the IRS prevents me from giving a lot of my money to charitable causes. And the last time I checked, charity was not an obligation.
The poor have a voice, but it's relatively small, just like the amount they pay in taxes. The can of worms has officially been busted open.
What will you do with your tax refund? Might I recommend blowing it all on booze and hookers? |
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| verndogs |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
No. It's from dividends and a portion of my income that was untaxed. |
doh...that sucks
I'm got back $1k in federal taxes and $240 from NY State :crazy: :crazy: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
I'd be willing to argue(at least for me), that paying the IRS prevents me from giving a lot of my money to charitable causes. And the last time I checked, charity was not an obligation.
The poor have a voice, but it's relatively small, just like the amount they pay in taxes. The can of worms has officially been busted open.
What will you do with your tax refund? Might I recommend blowing it all on booze and hookers? |
Well I think you have it half right what I'll do with my tax return! (I am English after all!)
But seriously - if you make the tax system "fair" then you have two options - either you cut back spending (as you will not collect as much tax) therefore what do you cut back on? Or you have to raise the basic level of income tax to make up for the short-fall in tax, which means the poor would have to pay a lot more (what do you think the effect on society of this would be?) |
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| MisterOpus1 |
There is a very real difference between the political philosophy of a given argument and the reality of instilling such philosophy into action. The Republicans have done a magnificent job at this on a number of issues – instilling their philosophies that fly in the face of reality, and this issue of taxes is no different.
And I must say right off that as a whole, I understand, sympathize, and even slightly agree to a small extent on their complaints on taxes – come this time of year everyone gets a little ing cranky for having examine just how much they have given, or still have yet to give to the government (as well as groan about how little they’re getting back in return). So yes, I share the sentiment that taxes do, in fact, suck.
But I also understand their necessity. And although there may be alternative ways to make certain aspects of our government better (such as privatization), on the whole I tend to side with our government and how they’ve run their various government programs that we must all contribute towards. Sure they could be doing better on some aspects, and sure there could be some trimming the fat on other aspects, but on the whole I don’t sweat it too much as to what I give my money towards.
Edit: Ah it - I went to far off in a tangent about the Estate Tax that I think it deserves a separate thread all on it's own. Sorry. |
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| DJMaytag |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Wise words from a former IRS Tax Commissioner...
| quote: | | Please remember that under the Sixteenth Amendment, Congress can take 100% of our income anytime it wants to. |
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Actually this is NOT exactly true, and it's not surprising that a tax commisioner doesn't know this:
| quote: | The Supreme Court and the Secretary of the Treasury have specifically stated that the 16th Amendment did not change the constitutional limits on Congress’ power to tax. According to the Supreme Court in Stanton v. Baltic Mining (240 U.S. 103) and Brushaber v. Union Pacific (240 U.S. 1) the purpose of this Amendment was to make it clear that the income tax is and has always been an indirect “excise” tax, which never required “apportionment” (but that must be geographically uniform). The Secretary of the Treasury formally agreed with the Supreme Court in Treasury Decision 2303:
| quote: | | “The provisions of the sixteenth amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited [Congress’ original power to tax incomes] from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation, to which it inherently belonged, and being placed in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment.” [Treasury Decision 2303] |
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Read up on http://www.taxableincome.net/861cons.pdf to find out more about what the law actually says about how to determine your taxable income (remember, income does NOT mean taxable income). Odds are good that many of you in the US actually DO NOT have ANY taxable income, therefore have no need to file any tax forms. |
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| DJMaytag |
| quote: | Originally posted by verndogs
doh...that sucks
I'm got back $1k in federal taxes and $240 from NY State :crazy: :crazy: |
So you loaned out $1240 interest free for a year, and you seem to think it's crazy? I would agree.
How about you loan me $1240 and i'll pay you back exactly that amount next year. Doesn't sound like such a good thing anymore, does it? :D |
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