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This is how you protest transit fare hikes! (pg. 2)
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| Ub3rTrancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Bull... it probably costs 10 cents to ride a bus there. They earn less than we do (in canadian dollars) but things are much less expensive including rent and costs of living.
You cant measure their income against our costs of living. |
First off... public transportation wouldnt cost 10 cents, second... do u have any idea of whats teh minimun wage down there is? my guess it is maybe 150 dollars a month
Im sure some of those students work fulltime jobs, study at night and weekends, have to pay rent, food, utilities + care for their families. Even with the cost of living being way lower then cadanas.. A busfair hick can cause such things.
My advice for u is, go live in a developin country for half of ur life, were ull see people eating out of ur garabage everyday do get a clue whats life down tehre stead of pretending to know it all. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ub3rTrancer
First off... public transportation wouldnt cost 10 cents, second... do u have any idea of whats teh minimun wage down there is? my guess it is maybe 150 dollars a month
Im sure some of those students work fulltime jobs, study at night and weekends, have to pay rent, food, utilities + care for their families. Even with the cost of living being way lower then cadanas.. A busfair hick can cause such things.
My advice for u is, go live in a developin country for half of ur life, were ull see people eating out of ur garabage everyday do get a clue whats life down tehre stead of pretending to know it all. |
funny you said that. Because i did live in a developing country. o i do have a clue what life is down there. People i knew in Argentina made an average salary of 1200 pesos a month (about 500 canadian). Sounds pretty ty doesnt it? Except that rent was 300 pesos a month, water was 25 pesos a month, electricity was 50 pesos a month, groceries were 100 pesos a month and bus fare was 50 centavos per trip depending on where you were going. I paid 40 canadian cents to travel an hour by train each way into buenos aires. I literally could live there on 400 canadian a month.
Im not saying poverty doesnt exist because there are lots of people who cant find work. But comparing salaries down there to costs in the first world is unrealistic. |
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| karim |
The Unemployment rates are rediculous in alot of developing countries. Sure the cost of living is a lot lower, but how affordable is it when you have no source of income?
These students are in a struggle to gain the skills needed to find jobs. They're not there yet. Chances are, they're living off their parents modest wages while trying to get a better life for themselves. Raising fares will either force them out of school because they can't afford to live off their parents, or force them to find jobs, jobs that do not exist.
Raising fares backs them into a corner and closes them off from opportunity. It may seem like I'm playing a fare hike off as more than it is, but in reality, a fare hike does just that.
At least in Cuba, education is available, people are working, and there is a smaller gap between the rich and the poor. I personally wouldn't wanna live in Cuba and I am grateful that I live in Canada, however some developing countries get worse by the day and need some type of socialist system to save the poor.
:)
Karim |
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| Ub3rTrancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
funny you said that. Because i did live in a developing country. o i do have a clue what life is down there. People i knew in Argentina made an average salary of 1200 pesos a month (about 500 canadian). Sounds pretty ty doesnt it? Except that rent was 300 pesos a month, water was 25 pesos a month, electricity was 50 pesos a month, groceries were 100 pesos a month and bus fare was 50 centavos per trip depending on where you were going. I paid 40 canadian cents to travel an hour by train each way into buenos aires. I literally could live there on 400 canadian a month.
Im not saying poverty doesnt exist because there are lots of people who cant find work. But comparing salaries down there to costs in the first world is unrealistic. |
That cool man
Comparing salaries down there to costs in the first world is very unrealistic
But the people who are protesting are not the ones making the 500 dollars a month. Im talkin about you butchers, garbage collectors, maids, gas station employees... The ones that do not make 500 dollars a month, but the minimum wage of 150 dollars (which what the minimun wage in brazil ruffly is). People who have to provide with only that.
They work 8 hours... sometimes more at one fukin ty job earnin just enough to live. The last thing they need is cost of living (ie. public transportation) to raise.
I used to know this woman, she used to be a cleanerlady at my building as a kid. Dumb as a rock, not for lack of intelligence, but due to lack of opportunities and education. Anyways... she used to heard 130 dollars a month, no husband... and guess how many kids she had... 8! She had to provide for all her kids... Do u think she would be happy with an increase in price on publictransportation?
Lets just give an example... say it went up 20 cents... I think she had to take 3 buses to get to work, so in the end of the day that was atleast an extra $1.20 going into transportation, $8,40 in a week, & maybe $30 dollars by the end of the month. Now if u do u know how the cost of living is downthere, thats enough to make someone upset. |
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| Jayx1 |
What about students in Canada? They have to live off of mom and dad's support. And yes there is a higher rate of unemployment in many of these countries but unemployment exists everywhere.
As for cuba's socialist solution. Try going to little havanna (miami) and spouting that nonsense. I dont think u will make it out alive. Europe and North America didnt get rich because of communism or socialism. Remember the USSR? They tried that approach, we didnt. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ub3rTrancer
That cool man
Comparing salaries down there to costs in the first world is very unrealistic
But the people who are protesting are not the ones making the 500 dollars a month. Im talkin about you butchers, garbage collectors, maids, gas station employees... The ones that do not make 500 dollars a month, but the minimum wage of 150 dollars (which what the minimun wage in brazil ruffly is). People who have to provide with only that.
They work 8 hours... sometimes more at one fukin ty job earnin just enough to live. The last thing they need is cost of living (ie. public transportation) to raise.
I used to know this woman, she used to be a cleanerlady at my building as a kid. Dumb as a rock, not for lack of intelligence, but due to lack of opportunities and education. Anyways... she used to heard 130 dollars a month, no husband... and guess how many kids she had... 8! She had to provide for all her kids... Do u think she would be happy with an increase in price on publictransportation?
Lets just give an example... say it went up 20 cents... I think she had to take 3 buses to get to work, so in the end of the day that was atleast an extra $1.20 going into transportation, $8,40 in a week, & maybe $30 dollars by the end of the month. Now if u do u know how the cost of living is downthere, thats enough to make someone upset. |
Im not saying that a bus fare increase wouldnt hurt them. Of course it would. But it hurts people here just as much. Remember that in Canada the lowest income earners are the ones that take the bus. ANd with the cost of rent and food compared to our minimum wage, 25 cents per fare is a lot of money. $2.50 each way or $100 for a metropass is quite a bit of money when you are making $7 and hour and paying $800 in rent. Im sure they dont pay 800 reales for rent in brazil let alone dollars.
I wont pretend that life isnt harder for a lot of people who live down there. But to pretend that bus fare hikes dont hurt people here as much as it does in another country is what i take issue with.
What about the single mother here on a fixed income? you dont think fare increases would hit this person the hardest here as well? |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
What about students in Canada? They have to live off of mom and dad's support. And yes there is a higher rate of unemployment in many of these countries but unemployment exists everywhere.
As for cuba's socialist solution. Try going to little havanna (miami) and spouting that nonsense. I dont think u will make it out alive. Europe and North America didnt get rich because of communism or socialism. Remember the USSR? They tried that approach, we didnt. |
Students in Canada get the opportunity of OSAP, Student Loans and Scholarships, and even with these options, many qualified students are still not able to go to University or College. Yes there's unemployment here, but we also have government programs to help get you back on your feet. If they lose their job, it could be years till they find another one. This can result in being forced into prostitution, the drug trade, and a slew of other things.
The difference between the rise of western democracy and modern developing countries is that these "free societies" such as argentina, et al. are not really free when they are being exploited by the first world. There's little room to grow when you have companies like Nike and Calvin Klein having more of an influence on economic growth than their national government. Their resources are being sucked away, and the way the worlds economic climate is right now, doesn't PERMIT them to grow or change. A government cannot stand up to capitalism and demand higher wages for their people because they will lose the low paying jobs they have to other worse off countries. This system of exploitation exists and it cannot be ignored.
Communism isn't the answer to a better world. But it may be the answer to better living conditions for many of these poorer nations.
:)
Karim |
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| Jayx1 |
One more thing...
the biggest myth i had to fight when i lived in Argentina was that everyone up here was stinking rich beyond belief. Just the same as the myth that i have to fight here is that everyone down there is stinking poor beyond belief.
Youd be surprised how similar life is in both societies when it comes to economics. The difference is that in Canada we have more stability. |
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| karim |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Just the same as the myth that i have to fight here is that everyone down there is stinking poor beyond belief.
Youd be surprised how similar life is in both societies when it comes to economics. The difference is that in Canada we have more stability. |
Enlighten me on what parts of Argentina you have seen. Have you ever been to the ghetto's? Walked through them? Spoken to those people?
:)
Karim |
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| Ub3rTrancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Im not saying that a bus fare increase wouldnt hurt them. Of course it would. But it hurts people here just as much. Remember that in Canada the lowest income earners are the ones that take the bus. ANd with the cost of rent and food compared to our minimum wage, 25 cents per fare is a lot of money. $2.50 each way or $100 for a metropass is quite a bit of money when you are making $7 and hour and paying $800 in rent. Im sure they dont pay 800 reales for rent in brazil let alone dollars.
I wont pretend that life isnt harder for a lot of people who live down there. But to pretend that bus fare hikes dont hurt people here as much as it does in another country is what i take issue with.
What about the single mother here on a fixed income? you dont think fare increases would hit this person the hardest here as well? |
heh, I never said that this bus fair increase of $.25 woudlnt hurt anyone, i find it an outrage. Like u said... droppin $100 dollars a month on transportation if u are makin ~2000 a month is brutal takin in concideration ur rent and everything else. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by karim
Students in Canada get the opportunity of OSAP, Student Loans and Scholarships, and even with these options, many qualified students are still not able to go to University or College. Yes there's unemployment here, but we also have government programs to help get you back on your feet. If they lose their job, it could be years till they find another one. This can result in being forced into prostitution, the drug trade, and a slew of other things.
The difference between the rise of western democracy and modern developing countries is that these "free societies" such as argentina, et al. are not really free when they are being exploited by the first world. There's little room to grow when you have companies like Nike and Calvin Klein having more of an influence on economic growth than their national government. Their resources are being sucked away, and the way the worlds economic climate is right now, doesn't PERMIT them to grow or change. A government cannot stand up to capitalism and demand higher wages for their people because they will lose the low paying jobs they have to other worse off countries. This system of exploitation exists and it cannot be ignored.
Communism isn't the answer to a better world. But it may be the answer to better living conditions for many of these poorer nations.
:)
Karim |
I have a friend who grew up in the Ukraine that would diagree with you.
You are right about multinationals though. They should adhere to the same work and safety standards as the country they originate. But pay isnt part of that. When you can live off of 1000 pesos a month why should a company be obligated to pay $3000 dollars a month?
Communism (repressing people's freedom) is not the answer to anything and people like you scare the hell out of me. Go live under communism and then report back to me about what a utopian society it is.
Socialism breeds laziness and lack of incentive. Humans by nature are greedy. Socialism fails to take this in to account. If you can never get ahead or fall behind no matter what you why should you care about the work you do? The answer is you dont. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by karim
Enlighten me on what parts of Argentina you have seen. Have you ever been to the ghetto's? Walked through them? Spoken to those people?
:)
Karim |
Actually if you walked through the villas youd probably get killed. But having said that there are not many of those types of places like they would have you think. Id say the percentage of homeless there are about the same as here. In fact i rarely saw people begging for money and if i did they were mothers looking for milk money. The people i spoke to were common middle class people. The apartment i had was a common apartment. Most people there are homeowners. Most people there are automobile owners as well. (although instead of having 4 per family they have one).
Although there are rich parts of buenos aires i lived in a middle class area and those are the people i associated with. And for the record, there are as many middle class people there as there are here.
When was the last time you spoke to a poor canadian? |
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