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Opposition wins no confidence vote but arrogant Liberals defy will of parliament (pg. 3)
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| Skipper |
*pokes head in*
*sees jay getting schooled in politics*
*chuckles and leaves* |
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| Jayx1 |
Tell me, how many times have the Liberals gone against the majority of it's contituents and done what it wanted?
When the Liberals do it they say they dont govern by polls. But when the conservatives do it suddenly its opportunistic? So which is it? And at least the conservatives are doing it for a good reason. Namely bringing down a corrupt government that is not fit to rule this land.
And im willing to bet the only reason that canadians dont want an election is out of laziness. In fact i dont think canadians ever really do want elections to be honest. Its an extra half hour taken out of their day. I fear this is how most canadians view elections and its quite sad. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
*pokes head in*
*sees jay getting schooled in politics*
*chuckles and leaves* |
I think everyone is getting schooled here... |
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| Jayx1 |
Seems that the Liberals have a stranglehold on our country
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
What you're seeing now is a power-hungry, opportunistic Stephen Harper...as with the previous elections, his true colours shine through at the last moment. He's smelling "victory" and will now do ANYTHING he can to topple the government as quickly as possible, even though a majority of Canadians do not want an election now.
So this is NOT about the wishes of the people...this is about Harper seeking power (which is his perogative). I'm tired of Harper rambling on about "democracy", the will of the people, blah blah...when he's ignoring our wishes that we don't want an election right now. He's at least equally as "undemocratic" as he's painting the Martin administration as being by blocking their motions.
I stand by my previous prediction...slim Liberal win, NDP makes signficant gains, Conservatives don't see the gains they expected, but remain the official opposition.
The difference, I think (and hope), this time is that the NDP will gain enough seats to work with the Liberals and we'll be done with Stephen Harper as the main power broker in the legislature (which is what I had hoped would come of the last election). |
Very good points but I cannot see your prediction for results rigning true. The problem is that the NDP and the Liberals will draw from the same seats. Any gains the NDP will make will be at the Liberals expense. Now it is possible that the Liberals could win seats away from the Conservatives, however, I don't see anything in the public opinion trends that would support that. I think the most likely outcome is that the Conservatives and the Liberals will end up in nearly a dead heat with a slight seat lead going to the conservatives. They will attempt to form a government but will need either the NDP or the BQ to support them in order to do this, they will not be able to get such an agreement(as the NDP is fearful of the Conservatives and the BQ will not work with anyone). The NDP and the Liberals will form a colalition government. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The NDP and the Liberals will form a colalition government. |
That would be a catastrophe...
Imagine the debt and wasteful spending if this happened. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Tell me, how many times have the Liberals gone against the majority of it's contituents and done what it wanted?
When the Liberals do it they say they dont govern by polls. But when the conservatives do it suddenly its opportunistic? So which is it? And at least the conservatives are doing it for a good reason. Namely bringing down a corrupt government that is not fit to rule this land.
And im willing to bet the only reason that canadians dont want an election is out of laziness. In fact i dont think canadians ever really do want elections to be honest. Its an extra half hour taken out of their day. I fear this is how most canadians view elections and its quite sad. |
A few points....
a) the Liberals have long since held to the position that they do not govern according to popular opinion and that general elections are the time to hold any government accountable. This differs from the Conservatives that started as a grass roots party calling for immediate accountability in Ottawa, held to the position that MPs should be considered delegates rather then representatives (ie. must follow constituancy instructions), and that the government should abide by public opinion via reforenda. As you can see, breaking from the will of the people is contrary to Conservative party ideology.
b) Of course wanting to go to the polls now is opportunistic for the Conservatives.... I for one do not blame them for this (as I pointed out in an earlier thread.... if I were a conservative party stategist I'd push for an election too), however, there are potential problems with forcing an early election.... backlash is one of them.
c) It costs nearly 100 million dollars of tax payers' money to hold a general election in this country. I'm not sure I'm willing to spend another 100 million dollars to shuffle seats around and trade one minority government for another. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
That would be a catastrophe...
Imagine the debt and wasteful spending if this happened. |
Last time this happened was Trudeau's minority in the mid 70s.... While I agree that a lot of waste happened at that time a lot of good came of it as well. IF my prediction were to be correct you can bet on a lot of spending on social issues, I'd hazard to guess the entire budget surplus would be spent on social issues. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
That is not a non-confidence vote (please read the constitution for further information on this). |
I don't know which constitution you're reading, but it's not the Canadian one. Issues of confidence and the role of the Governor-General are governed by unwritten convention (there are also orders-in-council on the subject).
| quote: | | a budget which is supported by the majority of Canadians |
There's no evidence of that. |
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| malek |
Some facts:
1-Quebec would get its share of the debt and other charges (federal employees in Quebec with pension plans) totaling around 126B$, but it would keep every infrastructure on its territory. Its only logical to keep what you paid for (that debt paid something right?)
2-Currency is a non issue, many countries use other countries currencies. For example, there's over 20 countries around the world that use the USD for example. Heck it could use the EURO or any other currencies it sees fit.
3-Quebecers would keep the passports and postal service until it creates its own (couple of years of transition or so), its only logical.
4-The Quebec govt has many agreements with the northern territories population and if I would be you guys, I wouldn't be as sure about "getting" northern Quebec (and its resources), and forget partioning all together.
5-Quebec already has a duplicate of every minister that the federal govt have except obviously the national defense and central bank, subservices parts of other ministers would be created too, for example the customs or secret services.
6-Its true that Quebec would not recieve any transfers (EI, boursaries, equalization payments, and others) roughly 9.6B a year.
7-But it would stop sending 41.1B/year in taxes and monies of all kinds to the Federal govt. We can manage that monies ourselves.
8-On the other hand it would save enormously on the waste of everyone's resources day after day done by Ottawa (crappy submarines, helicopters, gun registry, Federal elections (300M/each time) etc etc...).
9-It would also save on things that we pay for but don't get services in like the RCMP (9.9B/year, 5% to Quebec), Indian affairs (5.6B/year, 9.1% to Quebec), Atlantic Dev. Agency (465M/year, 0%), Agricultur 5.2B/year (9% to Quebec), West Dev. Agency (315M/year, 0% to Quebec), Ocean and Fisheries (1.4B/y, 6.7% to quebec) and obviously the Parlment (433M/year).
EDIT: And the shocker, the thing I forgot to mention, many intellectual anglophones in Quebec are now considering separation from Canada because the Federation is now longer working.
All these numbers are for 2003-2004. I typed this really fast so there might be some typos. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
What you're seeing now is a power-hungry, opportunistic Stephen Harper...as with the previous elections, his true colours shine through at the last moment. He's smelling "victory" and will now do ANYTHING he can to topple the government as quickly as possible, even though a majority of Canadians do not want an election now.
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1997: the country faced a major crisis as the Manitoba floods left hundreds homeless... Reform leader Preston Manning appealed to Chretien to delay the election for a couple of months to allow people to get back on their feet before voting. Chretien didn't delay the vote because the Lieberals were up in the polls. Early election (3.5 year Parliament) Result: Liberal majority.
2000: editorial boards and others around the country wanted Chretien to delay the election to allow the new Canadian Alliance, the Official Opposition and government-in-waiting (which had been formed just a few months earlier) some time to develop policies before an election. Chretien didn't listen. Early election (3.5 year Parliament) Result: Liberal majority.
2004: after Martin shut down the Public Accounts committee looking into AdScam, but then set up the limited Gomery Commission, the opposition wanted to delay the election until the facts came out. Martin didn't listen, and instead called an early election. Early election (3.5 year Parliament) Result: Lieberal minority.
So it's VERY hypocritical for the Lieberals to call for a delay in elections at this time. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
There's no evidence of that. |
I already noted that but thanks. |
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