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Iran hangs homosexuals (pg. 2)
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| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
how "aligned" he is to people like that? |
i wrote "bush is more aligned with people who'd do the same in the US if given the chance."
because you're reading comprehension is so low, i'll write it in a different manner. president bush gets more support from and relys upon, more persons who would tolerate the killing of homosexuals or would kill homosexuals, than any other modern president. by support, i mean manpower and financing. consider the past 10 presidents. which president is more aligned with people who'd do the same if given a chance? still not convinced?
you know this little tender chicken on the left of bush? you're a 'conservative' so you should have an idea. (see transcript below for answer)
and there's thew christian coalition, phyliss schlafly, and so on. do think these organizations would be more likely to kill homosexuals or at least tolerate the killing of homsexuals than not? as they would say in compton, NIGGA PLEASE.
| quote: | CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Interview With James Dobson
Aired September 5, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, top conservative Christian leader Dr. James Dobson. So much in the news to talk about. We'll cover it all. Take your calls, of course. Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family for the hour.
Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
One program note before we start. President Bush is going to make a major address on Sunday night, 8:30 Eastern on the subject of Iraq. We will, therefore, be with you live on Sunday night with a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE featuring members of the House, the Senate and others discussing what the president had to say. That's Sunday night.
It's always a pleasure to welcome Dr. James Dobson, the founder and chairman of Focus on the Family, the best-selling author of books that include "Bringing up Boys" and a photobook "The Wonderful World of Boys." He comes to us from his hometown now of Colorado Springs, Colorado.
All right. We'll start with, I guess, the most major news of recent weeks. Your thoughts on the controversy over the removal of the Ten Commandment monument in Alabama.
DR. JAMES DOBSON, FOUNDER, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: Well, Larry, first of all, it's good to be with you again. I always enjoy talking to you.
I've been very involved in that issue in Alabama because I feel that it is of critical importance to the entire country. I think it's important at the top of the program to say that the issue there was not Judge Moore. And it was not the monument and it was not the Ten Commandments. The primary issue was -- and is judicial tyranny. And I think it's time that this court was reigned in.
KING: Shouldn't a court have to judge on a ruling like separation of church and state? I mean, the court is there to determine what is constitutional and what is not. That's directly what a court does.
DOBSON: That is what a court does. But what concerns us is that the courts, this one and the ones that preceded it, have, for 41 years, been making decisions that essentially remove God from the public square. They're continuing to do so. And that is not in the Constitution. The Establishment Clause does not apply in this situation. And if they continue to do that, we're going to be a very, very different country.
KING: But you are not a lawyer, right?
DOBSON: I am not a lawyer. I don't think you can leave this issue just to the lawyers any more than you can leave medicine just to the doctors because it involves the whole country.
KING: No, but you wouldn't have a layman determine what makes proper heart surgery?
DOBSON: No, you wouldn't. But you do have laymen who make decisions about medical care in Congress. Those are not physicians for the most part. These -- these issues transcend the profession. And in this case, especially, considering what this court has done, going back to 1962, eliminating prayer in schools, 1963, eliminating Bible reading, on up 1980, they prohibited the schools in Kentucky from posting the Ten Commandments, it comes on through to last year when that crazy decision came down from the Ninth Circuit Court in California with regard to the Pledge of Allegiance. Those are matters that concern all of us, not just those who are lawyers.
KING: But obviously you thought that they had the right to put the Ten Commandments in the courthouse or you wouldn't have been calling it tyranny.
DOBSON: I do believe that primarily because Justice Moore campaigned on that promise. He said that's what he was going to do. He was duly elected by the people of Alabama. And I can't see any reason, Larry, why the federal court had the, you know, the temerity to come down there and dictate to the people of Alabama to beat up on them for how they decorate their court when...
KING: No, but Dr. Dobson -- the people of Alabama -- you supported candidates who favored segregated schools. Should we have favored segregated schools because the people voted for it?
DOBSON: They did and that was wrong. And that has been rectified, but this is not...
KING: By the court. Rectified by the courts that you call bad.
DOBSON: That's right, and it would be foolish to say that all of the decisions by the courts have been right or have been have been wrong.
In this case, however, if you just look at the city of Washington, the capital, the Supreme Court has in its own buildings three depictions of Moses or the Ten Commandments. The sergeant of arms, every day, begins the court by saying, God bless the United States and this court. It's all over the city. It is in the Capitol building and many, many ways that you can't deny. The Liberty Bell has a scripture on it. It's everywhere. So how do you come down from that perspective to Alabama and impose your will on the people of that state when they haven't even addressed it in the nation's capital? But that's why they're headed. KING: How about this area, doctor, of the Ten Commandments, of the 10, only two are law -- thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not steal. There is no law that says you have to honor your mother and father. In fact, that would be a ridiculous law because then Jeffrey Dahmer's kids would have to honor him and Hitler's children, if they had children.
So only eight of them are not -- have anything to do with law. Why have it in a courthouse?
DOBSON: Because the Ten Commandments are symbolic of the fact that our Founding Fathers based the laws of this country on the Judeo- Christian value system. Those Ten Commandments represent that basis and if you go to the -- to the chamber of the House of Representatives, you find depictions on both sides around the upper part of that chamber of the various lawgivers and right in the center, with all the rest of them, looking toward Moses is Moses himself. And he's the only one that looks down on the speaker.
That's where we have been. That is our law. It comes not from the other religions. It comes primarily from the Judeo-Christian value system and the Ten Commandments best represent that.
KING: Then to you, Dr. Dobson what represents separation of church and state? What does that mean to you?
DOBSON: Well, first of all, separation of church and state does not appear in the Ten Commandments anywhere.
KING: I know. But what does it mean? It doesn't belong in the Ten Commandments. But what does it mean to you, separation of -- I mean, you agree with, don't you?
DOBSON: I meant to say the separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution. It's a contrivance by the court to do what they wanted to do, but which the Founding Fathers did not state.
I believe in the separation of church and state to the extent that the church should not establish a religion. That's what the Establishment Clause says. It says Congress shall make no law establishing a religion or interfering with the free exercise thereof. That's the clause that all of this has come from. There is nothing in there about separation of church and state. So the Congress should not and must not establish a denomination.
But in Alabama, there was nothing that happened down there that relates to that. Congress had no passed any law. The Ten Commandments are not a church. It is not a denomination. And it was irrelevant in this situation.
KING: If the chief judge of a court were Muslim, and put up a Muslim creed, would that be OK with you?
DOBSON: It would not be OK with me...
KING: Why not? DOBSON: ... because that's not the -- that's not the historic foundation of our country.
KING: So you're saying we're a Judeo-Christian country? What right then do non Judeo-Christians have? Don't they have the same rights as you?
DOBSON: The beautiful thing, Larry, about the Judeo-Christian system of values is that it provides freedom. Freedom to worship however you want to or freedom not to worship at all. If the Islamic law were the law of this land, there would not be that freedom. And if you don't believe that, look at the countries where Islamic law rules.
The Judeo-Christian value system because it's based on love, permits people to believe anything and everything and nothing. That's what must be preserved and that's what 's threatened now.
KING: Let's touch other areas as we go to break. We'll be right back with Dr. James Dobson.
And abortion killer Paul Hill, who killed an abortion doctor -- he was executed the other day. We'll ask Dr. Dobson what he thinks about that.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. We'll be taking your calls in a little while. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: It is always great to have Dr. Dobson joining us. He's the founder and chairman of "Focus On The Family", one of the most popular, by the way, radio programs ever in this country. What did you make of the execution of the abortion clinic killer Paul Hill?
DOBSON: Larry, let me answer that in a second? May I clarify something that I said just a moment ago or extend it to explain. We're not in favor of overthrowing constitutional government. Obviously this is not a revolution that we're calling for or even to say that this government is not legitimate.
What we are asking for is the Congress to reign in the courts. It has the constitutional authority do that. And Hamilton and Jefferson and others worried about an imperious court, they worried about an oligarchy that would grab the reins of power and that liberty would be killed in its crib. That's that they were worried about.
So they gave the Congress the right to regulate the courts. And the Congress has not been willing to do that. As a result, you have a lack of checks and balances. The other two check each other. But the third branch of government is largely unregulated and that's our concern.
KING: Do you ever wonder why they didn't use the name God in the Constitution, never appears?
DOBSON: Well, it's in the preamble.
KING: Never in the Constitution itself.
DOBSON: It refers to him as the creator who has given us our inalienable rights and it also refers to the blessings of liberty. Who do you suppose those came from?
KING: Well, if God gave us liberty, then he also gave the power of the courts to express their thoughts. Right? Gave us all the same powers.
DOBSON: Well, we believe in the rule of law. But there are times when you answer to a higher law.
KING: But you don't -- would you take the higher law into your own hands?
DOBSON: No, I think this is an absolutely wonderful system of government, but it is not perfect. And there are liberal elites who would like to take advantage of the loopholes that are there and I think it is time for the Congress to speak and I believe they're going to on the federal marriage amendment and on the three other bills that are pending before Congress.
KING: Do you -- what do you make of the execution of Paul Hill?
DOBSON: Well, we did not support what Paul Hill did. Obviously you can't be pro-life and pro-death at the same time. And that was a wrong thing to do. A terrible -- it was murder. And he was tried in the courts and found guilty and was executed. End of story. It is a sad thing.
KING: Do you have thoughts on the death penalty itself?
DOBSON: I believe in the death penalty. I believe especially in those cases where egregious crimes have been committed, children have been raped and killed, I don't know how you can allow those people to live. So I do believe in the death penalty.
KING: The Texas antisodomy law was struck down by the Supreme Court 6-3, consenting adults. What do you think?
DOBSON: Well, there is another example of it, and the fact that that law was struck down is only a part of the concern that constitutional lawyers are expressing now. Our concern about this is with regard to the rationale that the majority wrote, actually Justice Kennedy wrote it. And I consider him to be one of the most dangerous men in America, because he departed from the moral foundation, for those kinds of laws.
Forever more it would appear that those decisions will be made not by moral principle, but by, what's called customary law, enormity of law or what is going on in Europe, which was cited, or what is going on in Canada. And he also quoted, of all things, the Kenzie Study which was based on absolute fraud. And so the rational for the majority was very, very troubling. KING: Why, Dr. Dobson, do you care about what could consenting adults do since you talked so much about freedom with their own privacy? Why does that interest you at all?
DOBSON: Well, what I care about is the institution of the family, which is under attack today. And from the way that decision that ruling was written, it is clear that the court is heading toward same sex marriage. This is quickly as they can get there.
That's why there is a scrambling on Capitol Hill now to deal with that and the possibility of a federal marriage amendment. That will destroy the family, which will destroy the nation and I think eventually have a major impact on western civilization.
KING: Can homosexuals have a family?
DOBSON: Homosexuals can be, you know, committed to each other. And they have freedom to behave in the ways that they do, but they cannot be a family. They cannot be married. I mean, virtually every culture in the history of the world has considered marriage to be between one woman and one man.
And this fad that is sweeping the world right now is dangerous because it undermines the legal basis for marriage. Larry, here is the crux of it right here. If two men or two women can marry, then there is no way a court could deny three men and two women or any combination thereof.
And therefore, you reopen the polygamy debate and people are calling now for group marriage. Michael Kensly, the liberal columnist, had an article in the "Washington Post," essentially making a case for group marriage. I don't believe that homosexuals really want to marry, most of them. They're all different and some have different views.
KING: What do you think about domestic laws that protect the right of the partnership, the right of the partner to have something to say on the death of the partner?
DOBSON: Well, that provision is not so troubling. There are -- there is an effort now create marriage in everything but name only. And that also undermines marriage. I think that's where the homosexual activist community is going. I think they want to destroy marriage and then re-create it in their own -- according to their own interpretation, with all of the benefits but without the commitment that depends -- that means so much to children.
KING: Why would they want to destroy marriage? Why would they not -- if they want to destroy it, why do they want to be married?
DOBSON: I don't think they want to be married, most of them. If you start -- if you're looking at the literature now, after this success that is being achieved in Canada and the Netherlands and other places around the country and when it is beginning to look like they might achieve gay marriage, now the goal line has moved and they're talking not about gay marriage, but about destroying this institution and then remaking it without commitment.
Many, many homosexuals are not committed for life. The research shows that they have as many as 300 to 1,000 partners in a lifetime. Why would they want to commit themselves to a binding relationship that prevents that.
KING: What do you make, Dr. Dobson, of what former Senator Alan Simpson, Republican Conservative said? He's against the constitutional amendment on establishment of marriage, but said it should be left up to the states.
He says as our country gained knowledge of homosexuality, we learned it is not a mental disease or threat our families. The real threat to family values is divorce, out of wedlock births and infidelity. He doesn't sanction gay marriages but says how are gay men and women to be expected to be able to build stable, loving relationships if we try to reinvent it?
DOBSON: Larry, why would you have expected anything different from Alan Simpson? He is a social liberal. He voted that way in Congress. And what he made the case for there was exactly what I'm talking about. He said in that op-ed piece that marriage should be a private matter. In other words, the government has no compelling interest in supporting marriage. It should be a private matter that could consist of more than two people, that you can do anything you want to with it.
You start doing that and, first of all, the next generation is seriously at risk and the institution of the family itself is in danger.
KING: We're going go to break, come back...
DOBSON: I'm sorry. I just disagree really strongly with what he had to say.
KING: I gather that, James. Our guest is Dr. James Dobson, the founder and chairman of Focus on the Family. We're going to go to your calls. Back with more subjects to talk about with this never dull guest.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Was that just fun to you, Dr. Dobson, or was it offensive?
DOBSON: It was very offensive not only to me, but I'm sure to millions of people around the country. But the MTV Awards where that occurred has a history of doing this sort of thing. You may remember two or three years ago Howard Stern pulled his pants down and mooned the camera and the audience. They do it for publicity. They do it for sensation.
You know, somebody said a number of years ago that if you set yourself on fire, people will gather around to watch you burn. And that's essentially what they're doing. They set themselves on fire they get attention, they -- they get talked about on LARRY KING LIVE, and they do what they intended to do.
The problem is that that show and MTV is the most watched channel in the world. And most of the people who watch it are very young. And some of them are in their early teens. That's scary.
KING: But would it make someone be a lesbian by seeing two girls kiss?
DOBSON: No...
KING: What's what the harm?
DOBSON: Yes. The harm is it is part of this continuing effort to desensitize people to homosexuality, and to set them up for changes in the law and eventually changes in the family.
It all moves in that direction. If you look at the sitcoms, Larry, almost every one of them now has a homosexual in a very respected role and then you have some straight guy who is a complete clod and a fool and that's kind of the thing that they're working on. That's -- you know, what's the progra? "Queer Eye for a Straight Guy" (sic) or whatever it is. It's the same thing. You got four homosexual men and one fool that they're working on.
KING: Let's go to calls for Dr. James Dobson, founder and chairman, Focus on the Family.
Anaheim, California, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. Thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: The question I have is why does the extreme Christian right doesn't believe in the First Amendment and feel that they have the right to shove their faith down my throat?
KING: Doctor?
DOBSON: Yes, well, in the first place, your use of the adjective extreme there I think reveals your bias. And nobody...
KING: In fairness, Doctor, you use it with regard to the left. If there is an extreme left, there there has to be an extreme right. You don't think there 's an extreme right?
DOBSON: There is an extreme right but I don't think we represent it.
KING: Oh, OK.
DOBSON: And people like you and others, Larry, almost never use that term extreme left. It's only extreme right. And those that are holding to views that 30 years ago, everybody in the country believed are now considered to be somehow off the wall and I certainly don't consider myself to be one of them.
KING: I've used both terms. So in fairness, Dr. Dobson, I think there is an extreme left and an extreme right. And they often meet each other coming around the circumstance.
DOBSON: There is an extreme right and I think Paul Hill was a representative of the extreme right. But merely believing in scripture and believing in the things that the Founding Fathers obviously believed does not represent anything extreme to me.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more. He's still got a half hour to go and it's always great to have him with us and we'll be including a lot more of your phone calls for Dr. James Dobson on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Program reminder, President Bush on Sunday night addresses the nation about Iraq. It is at 8:30 Eastern, 5:30 Pacific. We'll follow it with a live live edition of LARRY KING LIVE Sunday night. Senators, congressmen and others, and your phone calls. Normally on the weekends, LARRY KING LIVE is either a new show or highlights of previous shows. But we'll do a live live show Sunday.
Our guest is Dr. James Dobson, founder and chairman of Focus on the Family. He is a best-selling author. Recent books include "Bringing Up Boys" and a photo book "The Wonderful World of Boys." Back to your calls. Atlanta, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry, I would like to know why -- whether Dr. Dobson would like to comment on a statement made some years ago by Reverend Bailey Smith, president of the Southern Baptist Convention, who addressed the convention and said, and I quote, "God does not listen to the prayers of Jews because Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ." That's a quote. And I hear a lot of such anti-Semitic statements coming from southern Protestants.
KING: Dr. Dobson, want to comment?
DOBSON: Well, I'm not a southern Protestant. I am a Protestant. I would not endorse that statement. Only God can tell us who he listens to, and I think it is pretty, you know, presumptive to say that God hears one person's prayer and not another's -- another. He has a very special relationship with the Jewish people. He has a covenant with them. That's in the Old Testament. I still believe it. So I think it's really kind of silly to say that he does not hear the prayers of anybody on the face of the Earth.
KING: But there are some, some fundamentalists, who believe that if you do not believe Christ is the Savior, you will not go to heaven, right?
DOBSON: Well, I'm one of them. I do believe that.
KING: Well, then Jews won't go to heaven.
DOBSON: Well, if they don't accept, him that's true.
KING: But they don't.
DOBSON: Larry, I have only the scripture to go on. I have no authority to do anything that isn't written there. And Jesus himself said I am the way, the truth and the life. And he said that no man gets to the father, gets to God but by him. And that's what is in the scripture. So what am I going to do with that?
KING: So therefore you -- if a Jew dies not believing in Christ, he does not go to heaven?
DOBSON: Well, you asked me that question when I was here previously, and I told you the ultimate decision there is up to God, and he told us not to judge each other. I am merely reflecting what Jesus said about himself. And that's what I believe.
KING: Tampa, Florida, for Dr. James Dobson, hello?
CALLER: Yes, Larry. My question for your guest is, it has been said that we're in the end times. If this is true and we actually know this, is there anything we can do to prevent it, or is it a case that we don't want to prevent it because we realize the end times are preordained?
KING: Good question.
DOBSON: It is a good question. And I don't know the answer to it. I'm not a theologian, as I've said a number of times on this program, and I don't know whether we're in the end times or not. I'm troubled by some of the things that I see. And -- but through the millennium, people have thought they were in the end times, and it turned out not to be true. So I don't know, that is kind of up to God. It is totally up to God. And he says in the scripture that only he knows the times and the date.
KING: Waxhaw, North Carolina for Dr. James Dobson. Hello.
CALLER: Thank you, gentlemen, for taking my call. I was a registered voter in Vermont when Howard Dean was governor. And when the issue of civil unions was raised, the law was quietly passed and the voters demanded that there be a revote because so few people knew that that initial vote was taking place.
The revote was taken, and the majority of voters did not approve this law. However, the public representatives, who were spearheaded by then Governor Dean, voted their conscience, so to speak, and chose to enact the civil unions act anyway. My question for Dr. Dobson is, as a conservative, how would you best recommend that people speak out against civil unions, and more importantly, the strengthening of the family, when the publicly elected officials have the option, in theory, to vote their conscience and do what they personally feel is the right thing?
DOBSON: Well, you're making the case I was trying to make earlier. And it's a very, very important one. The court has ignored the will of the people and has gone on its own way. Again, this was the oligarchy that the founding fathers were concerned about. I mean, you just look at the Pledge of Allegiance by the 9th Circuit. Eighty- nine percent of the American people disagree with that decision. It doesn't matter. It is, you know, proceeding through the judicial system anyway. After that decision was handed down, the Congress was scared to death, and Senator Daschle, you know, fell all over himself getting to the microphones to say he disagreed with it.
The Senate voted 99 to nothing to say that they disagreed with that decision. But there it goes. It doesn't matter what the other branch of government thinks. And it doesn't matter what the people think. It is only what the court wants.
KING: Do you want all of government then by -- by the vote of the people, you don't want representative government?
DOBSON: No, I believe in a representative form of government, but again, the founding fathers established this system of checks and balances. I go back to what I said...
KING: But then you can vote your congressman out. But we don't have a government of referendum.
DOBSON: No, but you can exercise your right to vote.
KING: Of course.
DOBSON: And if the Congress votes against a federal marriage amendment, I think that ought to be a campaign issue in the next election.
KING: Plant City, Florida. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Dobson. Thank you, Mr. King. My question is, well, I'm a Christian and I respect and I'm with the same mind set as Dr. Dobson. I greatly appreciate his work. My question is, in our society, how do we live with and also teach our children how to live with homosexual people, show them Jesus' love, without accepting or condoning their behavior?
DOBSON: Well, again, that's a very, very important question, because we're called as Christians to love and respect everybody to treat each other with dignity and respect, and there is no place in the Christian theology or life to hurt other people and attack other people and wound other people, or deprive them of their civil rights. On the other hand, you don't have to agree with them, and especially their agenda. And in this case, the homosexuality activist community has an agenda that we feel would be very, very harmful to the family and to the country. You have to oppose that, while accepting the dignity and the humanity of the people that you disagree with.
KING: Nashville, Tennessee, hello.
CALLER: Hi there.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: I heard that private citizens in Alabama have filed a lawsuit to get the Ten Commandments monument moved back. And I'm wondering, Dr. Dobson, if you know anything about this or what the status of that is?
KING: I think it was thrown out, wasn't it, doctor? I believe a lower court threw it out, I think.
DOBSON: Well, it is my understanding that the same judge that made the ruling in the first place that removed the Ten Commandments has now overthrown -- or thrown out that petition. But it will go on to a higher court, and hopefully it will get to the Supreme Court, although I don't have a whole lot of hope for what happens there.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more phone calls for Dr. James Dobson. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: I know your interest in family extends to families everywhere, Dr. Dobson. What is your thoughts on what is going on in Iraq?
DOBSON: Well, my heart breaks for what is happening to families there. But I really believe that the situation is better now than under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein and his two sons and the others that tyrannized the people for so many years. It is going to take a long time to recover from that.
You don't rebuild a society quickly. And I think the president is doing everything he can. And the military doing everything they can to restore order there.
KING: Fort Riley, Kansas, for Dr. James Dobson. hello.
CALLER: Hi, I'm Mike Witt. And my question for Dr. Dobson today is what do you think about homosexuals raising children?
DOBSON: You know, social science is rarely unanimous. You get contradictory findings and you have different factions that agree -- that think different things. But on this one, it is almost unanimous. Almost every one of the studies show that children do best when they're raised in a home with a mother and a father who are committed to each other. And who stay together. And when they do that, the incidents of all of the adolescent problems and the other things, drug abuse and learning problems, all those other things goes down.
So I don't believe that homosexuals should be able to adopt. Children are entitled to two role models if that's at all possible. A man and a woman. And they're not fully complete and don't fully understand their own sexuality until they see that contrast.
So I think homosexual adoption is something that 15 years ago was unthinkable. But in this wave of successes by the homosexual community, that is where we appear to be headed. I hope not.
KING: Do you agree, doctor, that an unhappy heterosexual marriage can produce problems in children?
DOBSON: Oh, certainly can, but you go with probabilities. And the probabilities are far greater that if you have a man and a woman committed to each other in a stable marriage, that children do better. And especially boys do better. Sorry.
KING: Especially boys, really?
DOBSON: Yes.
KING: Interesting.
San Bernardino, California, hello.
CALLER: Hello, Dr. Dobson. I greatly appreciate your show here in California that comes on KKLA. I wanted to ask you, I am greatly concerned about the domestic partnership bill that is headed to the governor's desk here. I'm so embarrassed to even admit that I'm a long-standing Democrat, but that will be changed very soon and in particular with this current recall coming up.
I wanted to ask you what can we do hear in California for those of us who back several years ago voted against prop 22 which would have attempted to legalize gay marriages here?
DOBSON: Well, you have raised a point that, again, is very, very important. The state legislature in California is also absolutely out of control. That's being said all across the country. And they're doing things that no other state legislature is doing.
Right there in California you mentioned it, the proposition 22 defined marriages between one man and one woman. It passed by 69 percent to 39 percent. And they don't pay any attention to that. And now they have sent this bill to the governor. But beyond that, last week you may be aware of the foster care bill that they passed which requires all foster parents to go through homosexual training and propaganda and to not say anything to their children about homosexuality that would not be in keeping with the homosexual view point.
What that means is, that those are committed Christians and those that have strong moral commitments simply will not be foster parents. It makes no sense.
KING: But you'd teach people to love everybody. To love homosexuals. So shouldn't we learn about dealing with each other? What's wrong with that?
DOBSON: Well, because there's propaganda in that. You've got these kids in the foster care system, Larry...
KING: Who are told what?
DOBSON: They have no parents. They have no one to fight for them. They haven't seen a mother and a father committed to each other. They're totally vulnerable and then you expose them to homosexuality and you create all kinds of sexual identity problems.
KING: To Chicago, Illinois, hello.
Chicago, hello.
CALLER: Hi. I was just wondering -- first of all, thank you for taking my call. If somebody could explain to me the logic of how my 17 year committed relationship with my partner threatens the heterosexuals in my neighborhood. We've been here for 17 years. I haven't seen an explosion of homosexuality. I haven't seen divorce gone rampant.
I just want to know what the connection is to my private relationship with my partner and my threat to the heterosexual marriage model. I don't see it. You've also threatened, or you've also mentioned that my relationship threatens my country and again I find that such a huge leap of illogic. I can't even fathom that I'm watching...
KING: All right, doctor, what would you say to them.
DOBSON: Well, first of all, the example that's been given in research methodology is called a case of 1, a study of 1. You don't look at 1 person and establish your public policy on that basis.
When you look at the nation as a whole. It thrives or falls on strong committed, heterosexual marriage. And to the degree to which it does not accomplish that, it does threaten the stability of the country and it especially threatens the next generation.
KING: We'll take a break. We'll be back with our remaining moments, some more phone calls with Dr. James Dobson as well. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Before we take the next call, Dr. Dobson, what do you think of California recall idea in general, and, number two, should Arnold Schwarzenegger's interview with a soft core magazine years ago count against him?
DOBSON: Well, it's not what he did 20, 30 years ago that concerns me. It's the fact that he is a flat out admitted social liberal. And the kind of problems that I just talked about coming out of the state legislature there are not going to be bettered with this man, or at least I fear they're not. You know, he's in favor of Roe v. Wade, he has not said anything that would give us any comfort with regard to gay marriage or the other things. Those are the current issues that worry me about this man, and I happen to like McClintock.
KING: And what about the recall itself? Do you like that idea?
DOBSON: I do. That's democracy. That's giving people the opportunity to express their concerns. If their representatives don't do what they said they were going to do or if they fail, the people should have a right to throw them out.
KING: In any state.
DOBSON: And have a vote on it.
KING: In any state?
DOBSON: Sure. Certainly.
KING: In any state. East Liverpool, Ohio, hello.
CALLER: Hi. My name is Linda, and I just want to say, what an honor it is to talk with Dr. Dobson. I'm a home school mom. I am using reproduction of "The McGuffey Readers" that's part of our curriculum. They're packed full of scripture and moral values, and my question for him is where and why did we stop as a nation teaching our children about God and his role in the founding of our country and in the founding fathers' lives?
DOBSON: Well, that's just been a slow leak. And as I've said today, the courts have played a major role in that change. "The McGuffey Readers" are wonderful. That goes back to the mid-1800s. And that's how most people, most children learned to read at that time. And in some states, we had a 90 -- better than a 90 percent legitimacy rate -- I mean a 90 percent -- what's the word? They can all read.
KING: Literacy.
DOBSON: Illiteracy (sic) is the word I'm looking for. And I thank you, speaking to the caller, that you dedicated your life to raising those kids. Home schooling is a tough assignment. And you're obviously very committed to it.
KING: Speaking of that, what do you think of school vouchers?
DOBSON: I think vouchers are an idea whose time has come. You may be aware, Larry, that the Congress just authorized vouchers for the District of Columbia. It's the first time ever that -- on the national level, this has been done. And, you know, it will introduce competition, and competition always makes enterprise better.
KING: Staten Island, New York. Hello. CALLER: Yes, hi, Mr. King, Dr. Dobson. This is a great privilege to be allowed to ask you a question. And I just want you to know that we have been listening to your radio station for almost the past 30 years and have been involved with your ministry and receive many resources from you. You are a man of integrity, and I'm very happy that I'm able to tell you this right now over the phone, that your family has been a blessing to us, just your integrity has really...
KING: Do you have a question, ma'am?
CALLER: Yes, the question is that my husband and myself, we go to a church here in Staten Island. And we have a burden (ph) for young people. We understand that your daughter is involved with the youth ministry now, and we were just wondering if she was doing seminars throughout the nation at this time?
DOBSON: Both my daughter and my son have just written books. My daughter's book is called "Let's Talk." And she is speaking around the country. My son Ryan is speaking to 500,000 kids this fall in various concerts and things that he's attending.
So I'm proud of both those kids. They are solid Christians. They love the Lord, and they're both very, very concerned about the -- what is happening to the younger generation. And I am, too. But thank you for your kind comments. I would love to meet you sometime. Why don't you come to Colorado, Springs and we'll say hello.
KING: Ruston, Louisiana, hello.
CALLER: Hi. Hey, Dr. Dobson. I want you to know how much I love Focus on the Family, and your counseling center helped me through a rough time this past week. And it was just a pleasure to talk to them.
My question is, I'm a single woman and I am struggling because my family, sister, brother, parents, they are as ethical as can be, but they don't want me to talk about Christ. They don't want me to, you know, share my love for him, and I feel like they turn a deaf ear. And I know that I can pray for them, and I do, but I didn't know what my next step should be, and if you have anything to read about sharing your faith with your family. I know that we should share our faith with the world, but the family seems to be the hardest part. But thank you and God bless you.
DOBSON: Oh, thank you. I take my instruction, again, from the scriptures. That means the world to me. And Jesus never forced himself on anybody. And in fact, when he was speaking to 5,000 people at one time, and they left, and he turned to his disciples and said would you go, too? He did not, you know, try to behave in tactless ways that took away the rights of people to make their own decisions. I believe we live that life in front of people, and when we do, they usually want to know why we have something that is working. And that's the time to share it and not to force it on somebody.
KING: We only have a minute left, doctor. Do you ever doubt your faith when you see terrible things happen in the world?
DOBSON: Well, Larry, I wrote a book on that subject that you and I talked about at one time called "When God Doesn't Make Sense." And there are circumstances that I can't figure out. And in fact, I worry about those that think they can figure them all out. And that's where faith comes in. And you just leave it in his hands. And there are, you know, all the time there are things like that that concern me.
KING: As always, thank you very much for joining us. We look forward to our next visit.
DOBSON: I enjoyed it, Larry. Thank you.
KING: Dr. James Dobson, founder and chairman, Focus on the Family. He's a best-selling author. Recent books include "Bringing Up Boys" and the photo book "The Wonderful World of Boys," and it came to us from where he broadcasts his program, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs.
I'll be back in a couple of minutes to tell you about the weekend. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Tomorrow night, we'll repeat our show dealing with the life and times of Elvis Presley. And Sunday night, both Aaron Brown and I will be here. So will Paula Zahn. Aaron and Paula will co- anchor the 8:00 Eastern time hour. That will include a 15-minute address on Iraq from President Bush, and then we'll follow live at 9:00 with guests dealing with the same topic.
So we're back again Sunday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you say some of the most reckless and irresponsible crap i've seen here in a while. where in the hell do you get off saying some of the sh&t you do? |
everytime i think your stupidity and self-delusion has reached a new high, you surprise me by taking it up a new notch.:stongue: |
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| tiesto14 |
| mmMMmmmmm...don;t you just LOVE religion...so much wonder and joy it brings.:rolleyes: |
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| TRANCEEEE |
the new president is very ugly and a dumb ...
I've come in contact with a couple of people who currently reside in iran (tehran) and they 've told me that security is at its highest in years ... cops are everyweher bothering + arresting the younger generation on charges as ridiculous as partners holding hands !!! or girls not wearing thier scarves properly
this won't stop
people there don't care about politics
and they actually don't give two s about the hangings as i lived there , it seemed very normal... however now its just unreal |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by bubble
i wrote "bush is more aligned with people who'd do the same in the US if given the chance."
because you're reading comprehension is so low, i'll write it in a different manner. president bush gets more support from and relys upon, more persons who would tolerate the killing of homosexuals or would kill homosexuals, than any other modern president. by support, i mean manpower and financing. |
listen to yourself. you just put tens of millions of American people i.e. "supporters", i.e. voters, in the same catagory as murderers. don't frikken play semantics with me then try and explain yourself through a Larry King episode. your the one thats spewing inflamatory generalizations...wait. its not even a generalization it's just madness. inflamatory. divisive. bigotry.| quote: | | consider the past 10 presidents. which president is more aligned with people who'd do the same if given a chance? |
i'll play your game. the question is, which of the previous 10 presidents "aligned" themselves with the rabid alchemist of the religious right; people that bubbles thinks would endorse the public hanging of 16 year old homosexuals. hmmmmm...lets see...uh Truman? does he count. how about Eisenhower? Kennedy for sure. Reagan? maybe. Carter?
| quote: |
you know this little tender chicken on the left of bush? you're a 'conservative' so you should have an idea. (see transcript below for answer) |
oooh! you found a pictuer the President in church with Dobson. Bush is Methodist. the UMC has got to be one of the most liberal mainstream churches on the planet. Dobson's a far right Protestant freak. the use of that picture for an argument is no more than propaganda.
| quote: | | and there's thew christian coalition, phyliss schlafly, and so on. do think these organizations would be more likely to kill homosexuals or at least tolerate the killing of homsexuals than not? as they would say in compton, NIGGA PLEASE. |
are you a girl? seriously.
anyway you are way out there dude, or whatever, and your calling me delusional. the point is, your thought processes and others like you, actually contribute to the problem of divisivness and the rise of religious intolerance in this country. i know you don't care. i think you live in fear...of nothing
| quote: | | everytime i think your stupidity and self-delusion has reached a new high, you surprise me by taking it up a new notch.:stongue: |
yeah, your a girl. i don't mean that in a derogatory way if you aren't. |
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| Cyrus King |
i hope to see the day when these mullahs and islamic extremists are drained of their blood while they are alive.
I truly wish from the bottom of my heart to see these people perish. They are evil... they promote the death cult of islam |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by bubble
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heres some background for your so effectively demonstrated picture.
it was taken at the Whitehouse on National Prayer Day. and heres some background on NDP
| quote: | 1775: The first day of prayer was declared when the Continental Congress "designated a time for prayer in forming a new nation."
1783: "...the conclusion of the Revolutionary War marked a temporary end to the National Day of Prayer." 12
1795-FEB-19: George Washington proclaimed a day of public thanksgiving and prayer.
Circa 1813: President James Madison proclaimed a day of prayer. He later said such proclamations are not appropriate. "They seem to imply and certainly nourish the erroneous idea of a national religion." 2
1808: Thomas Jefferson also opposed declarations of national days of prayer by the Federal government. He wrote "Fasting and prayer are religious exercises; the enjoining them an act of discipline. Every religious society has a right to determine for itself the time for these exercises, and the objects proper for them, according to their own particular tenets; and right can never be safer than in their hands, where the Constitution has deposited it." 3
1863-MAR-30: Abraham Lincoln signed a Congressional resolution of MAR-3 which called for a day of fasting and prayer durin the Civil War (1860-1865).
1952-APR-17: A bill proclaiming an annual National Day of Prayer (NDP) was unanimously passed by both houses of congress. President Truman signed it into law. It required the President to select a day for national prayer each year.
1972: The National Prayer Committee was created. It is an Evangelical Christian organization. The National Day of Prayer Task Force is a project of that committee.
1988: A bill was introduced to Congress which fixed the annual NDP at the first Thursday in May. The Senate bill, S 1378, was introduced by Stron Thurmond (R-SC); a matching House version was initiated by Tony Hall, (D-OH). It received broad bipartisan sponsorship and support, and became Public Law 100-307. It was signed into law by President Reagan on 1988-MAY-5. He commented: "On our National Day of Prayer, then, we join together as people of many faiths to petition God to show us His mercy and His love, to heal our weariness and uphold our hope, that we might live ever mindful of His justice and thankful for His blessing."
1993 to 1998: The concept of the NDP as a multi-faith event which recognizes the extensive diversity of religious expression in the U.S. was echoed by subsequent presidents in their proclamations. President Clinton has written: 1993: "Through prayer our people take a moment away from the concerns of everyday life to understand the greater power that gives us guidance. We come together in an act common to all religions."
1994: "I encourage the citizens of this great Nation to gather, each in his or her own manner, to recognize our blessings, acknowledge our wrongs, to remember the needy, to seek guidance for our challenging future, and to give thanks for the abundance we have enjoyed throughout our history."
1995: "I call upon every citizen of this great Nation to gather together on that day to pray, each in his or her own manner, for God's continued guidance and blessing."
1996: "And though our citizens come from every nation on Earth and observe an extraordinary variety of religious faith [sic] and traditions, prayer remains at the heart of the American spirit."
1997: "...let us uphold the tradition of observing a day in which every American, in his or her own way, may come before God seeking increased peace, guidance, and wisdom for the challenges ahead." 5
1998: "In every city, town, and rural community across our country, people of every religious denomination gather to worship according to their faith. In churches, synagogues, temples, and mosques, Americans come together to pray." 9
1999: According to some reports, all 50 U.S. state governors and several governors of U.S. territories proclaimed the National Day of Prayer within their jurisdictions. Other sources of information indicate that a few state governors did not issue proclamations. An Evangelical Press News Service posting on 1999-MAY-14 mentioned that Jesse Ventura, governor of Minnesota refused to issue a proclamation for the NDP because of separation of church and state issues. He commented "There are people out there who are Atheists, who don't believe at all. They are all citizens of Minnesota, and I have to respect that." Ventura signed a statement of recognition instead; it acknowledged that the NDP existed, but did not offer state support for it. Minnesota Family Council President Tom Prichard criticized Ventura. "I'm perplexed to think the governor would refuse to issue a prayer proclamation, something President Clinton and many other governors have proclaimed this year, but would issue a proclamation for the Rolling Stones [on 1999-FEB-15]. In a time of school shootings and international turmoil, we should be encouraging prayer all the time. I would think the governor at the very least would give the same recognition to a day of prayer that he gave to Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones." There is, of course, no constitutional requirement for the separation of music and state, as there is between church and state.
2000: Texas Metroplex Atheists announced that they would hold a peaceful demonstration at the NDP event in Bedford TX on 2000-MAY-4. The national headquarters of the Christian Coalition is located in this city. They are not protesting prayer itself; they are opposed to the use of tax money and public property to encourage religious devotion. 6 Similar demonstrations will be held in Dallas, TX; Orlando, FL; and Detroit, MI. "In Washington, D.C., NDOP organizers stage a prayer ceremony on capitol hill, and an afternoon rally on the steps of the capitol building. The Nationally Broadcast Concert of Prayer (NBCOP) will air Thursday night [MAY-4] on radio stations from 8 - 11 p.m. from the Prestonwood Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas." 7
2001: The 50th National Day of Prayer was held on MAY-3. Its organizers estimate that about 2.5 million people attended the approximately 40,000 events across the U.S. Several representatives of American Atheists protested at Andover, KS, city hall where one event took place. They objected to the apparent violation of the principle of church and state which occurred when the religious meeting was held in a government building.
Chairperson Shirley Dobson stated that all of the state governors recognized the NDP this year. In the year 2000, Jesse Ventura of MN had refused to sign a declaration on constitutional grounds. He felt that it would have violated his oath of office which requires him to uphold the U.S. constitution. Pastor Phyllis Gregory stated that a prayer would be offered "the lost, those in sin, in need, living in lack and Cassadaga." The latter is a small town in Florida known for its Spiritualist camp. The camp president said that he didn't feel that they were lost souls, but welcomed the prayer anyway.
2002: The National Day of Prayer Task Force reported that "...approximately 40,000 events were held nationwide. Local volunteers and coordinators held a variety of activities ranging from prayer breakfasts, Bible reading marathons, concerts of prayer, rallies, church prayer vigils, student flagpole gatherings and observances held in sports stadiums." 8 President George W. Bush stated in his proclamation that the two purposes of the NDP were: "...to reaffirm the role of prayer in our society and to honor the religious diversity our freedom permits..." 9
2003: The National Day of Prayer was held on MAY-1. It coincided with three other celebrations: Wiccans celebrate Beltane on this day. This is one of their four major Sabbats (seasonal days of celebration). Wicca is a Neopagan religion, patterned after the aboriginal religion of the ancient Celtic people. Other Neopagan religions also celebrated on this day.
International Workers' Day, recognizes the contribution by workers throughout the world. It is recognized in almost every country except the United States, Canada, and South Africa.
This will be the first annual observance of the National Day of Reason. Future celebrations will also be scheduled the first Thursday in May. It is a response to the National Day of Prayer by various Humanist, Agnostic, Atheist, and other secular groups. It is intended to support those Americans who do not believe in a personal male deity who listens to prayer and responds to it.
Dr. Luis Palau, an internationally-known Fundamentalist pastor wrote a prayer for the NDP. The NDPTF encourages Americans to recite this prayer at noontime on MAY-1 local time.
Some interesting notes about NDP for 2003-MAY-01: Almost all events were located at or sponsored by conservative Christian churches and/or are led by conservative Christian pastors. There are a few exceptions; most involve Presbyterian or Methodist pastors or churches.
A few events emphasized that everyone in the community is welcome to attend.
There was at least one Jewish NDP event. It occured in Arizona.
There was at least one ecumenical Christian NDP event in Texas and three in Florida led by conservative Pastors, mainline Protestant ministers and Catholic priests.
The Montana NDP group prayed for God to "build a wall along the northern border" with Canada to "prevent the enemy, spiritual and natural from entering into the U.S." This will presumably be a spiritual wall; there was no obvious news items in the media about a physical wall being erected to keep Canadians out. The fear evidenced by this statement may be related to a growing expectation at the time that same-sex marriage might become available in Canada. If so, their prophecy came true a month and nine days later when same-sex couples started to buy marriage licenses, get married and register their marriages in Ontario. This right has since spread across Canada.
In some cities, including Munci IN, a pair of NDP events were held: one for conservative Christians, and the other for persons of all faiths, including conservative Christians. Pastor William Keller, president of the Delaware County Evangelistic Association organized the exclusively conservative Christian event in Munci. He expressed concern that "My people wouldn't come to a meeting that is an inter-faith event." 10
2004: According to the NDPTF web site: "In 2004, approximately 40,000 events were held nationwide. Local volunteers and coordinators held a variety of activities ranging from prayer breakfasts, Bible reading marathons, concerts of prayer, rallies, church prayer vigils, student flagpole gatherings and observances held in sports stadiums." 11 It is not known whether this is an estimate of the NDP events that it coordinated, or whether it is an estimate of the total number of NDP events across the U.S.
2005: Americans United for the Separation of Church and State organized a truly inclusive NDP event in Oklahoma City, OK, for Christians, followers of other religions, and persons who followed no religion. A similar inclusive event was scheduled in Troy, MI, and probably in other locations. |
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| kush paintings |
| Ok, bubbles. First you attack my literacy. You are right. I have no idea how to read. I'm sorry. I just went out and bought all of the reading rainbow tapes, so give me a few weeks and hopefully I can decipher your language. Anyways, you are still making an outrageous claim. While Bush and Co. have shown intolerance towards homosexuals, they have in no way shape or form condoned the killing of homosexuals. They may not agree with their life choices, but that is another story. I just don't understand your comments at all. Bash Bush and his cabinent all you want for their bigotry, you have exhibited the same quality. |
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| trancaholic |
While I agree with most of you that this is disgusting, I don't think that terms such as evil, crazy, and barbaric apply. In Iran it has been decided that homosexual acts are sins, and hence that they should be prevented. Now, there are several philosophical justifications for the state punishing its citizens, and one of the more rational ones is to deter others from commiting crimes. Adopting that philosophy, and noticing that homosexuality is relatively widespread in Iran (despite its illegal status), it makes sense to have a harsh punishment. Just as we in the west have decided that rape and murder are intolerable and have the harshest possible punishments for that. Thus, given that homosexuality is a major sin in Iran, the punishment is rational.
Now, one might argue that homosexual acts could never rationally be regarded a sin (which I agree with), as it is a private affair between two or more consenting adults. However, if that holds then most western societies label other acts as sins in a similar irrational fashion: The most obvious example would be laws that require a driver of a car to wear a seatbelt, even if the only one that can be harmed by failure to do so is the driver himself. Other, more interesting, examples include
- the feast of the canibal from Germany, whose victim had asked to be killed and eaten,
- Schiavo's wish to be put to death (i.e. the illegal status of euthanasia),
- doing drugs,
- having sex before reaching the legal age, and specifically
- the act of the US girl who got arrested because she took pictures of herself in the nude as a minor and sent them to friends.
All of these are examples of acts that western societies have labelled sins, even if they do not involve anyone else but the sinners themselves. If we allow such madness in our own society, how can we blame Iran for labelling homosexuality as a sin? |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Just as we in the west have decided that rape and murder are intolerable and have the harshest possible punishments for that. |
comparing homosexuality to rape and/or murder is insanity.
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Thus, given that homosexuality is a major sin in Iran, the punishment is rational. |
Like i said earlier...isn't religion grand? lol homosexuality is a sin? what a joke...first you have to beleive in sin to buy such nonsense.
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
- Schiavo's wish to be put to death (i.e. the illegal status of euthanasia),
- doing drugs,
- having sex before reaching the legal age, and specifically
- the act of the US girl who got arrested because she took pictures of herself in the nude as a minor and sent them to friends.
All of these are examples of acts that western societies have labelled sins, even if they do not involve anyone else but the sinners themselves. If we allow such madness in our own society, how can we blame Iran for labelling homosexuality as a sin? |
is that YOUR word "madness"? or are you playing devil's adocate...surely you cant beleive euthanasia is madness...it is the polar opposite. |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
is that YOUR word "madness"? or are you playing devil's adocate...surely you cant beleive euthanasia is madness...it is the polar opposite. |
The things I listed was acts that are deemed sins by western societies in general. The fact that they are is madness IMO. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
The things I listed was acts that are deemed sins by western societies in general. The fact that they are is madness IMO. |
oh u beleive they madness BECAUSE they are sins.....if so...well then i agree. |
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| aK-M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
i hope to see the day when these mullahs and islamic extremists are drained of their blood while they are alive.
I truly wish from the bottom of my heart to see these people perish. They are evil... they promote the death cult of islam |
im with you! |
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