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Osama Bin Laden video tape released
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| Lynx |
| crazeeness...it makes total sense tho. argh, allah and jihad. i've read a few things about the religion and it's unbelieveable. i can't believe that human beings out there would praise him and relate the events to a 'ballgame'. wtf. pisses me off. argh. |
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| RavingLunatic |
yes, it pissed me off too.
and the islamic religion does not condone acts of violence, it abhors them.
it's religious fanatics, of every religion(yes even christianity) that are evil. |
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| tiesto14 |
| we should have bombed afghanistan the same way we bombed the Japanese after Pearl Harbor..... |
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| Fatboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by RavingLunatic
yes, it pissed me off too.
and the islamic religion does not condone acts of violence, it abhors them.
it's religious fanatics, of every religion(yes even christianity) that are evil. |
Well said Loony:D
My father and my family on his side are all muslims, and you have to search long and hard to find nicer and more sensible persons. It's good to see that people can look further than the madmen that attacked WTC. Many people don't:rolleyes:
Peace |
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| RavingLunatic |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
we should have bombed afghanistan the same way we bombed the Japanese after Pearl Harbor..... |
should have? we did. billions of dollars worth of bombs have been dropped in afghanistan. a hospital was bombed. a village was bombed. and these are only the ones I know about.
bin laden, has still not been found. the leader of the taliban has still not been found.
innocent people lie dead on both sides, and the war continues. |
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| tiesto14 |
to RavingLunatic
in no way did we bomb Afghanistan in the same magnitude thatw e bombed Hiroshima after Pearl Harbor...we destroyed Japan....in Afghansistan we are bombing military camps and places where we feel the Talibans are hiding..u cant compare the 2....
i know that we have bombed hospitals and innocent people and children have been killed due to those attacks....butto be honest i do not care...i am sorry but thats the way i feel....i personally know 2 people who lost their lives in the World Trade Centers, 1 of which as 2 children and a wife and now who are now suffering more then i have ever seen anyone suffer....
we could of taken one day and just destroyed the entire place in Afghanistan and i would fuken laugh at all those people there begging for theit lives and laugh right in their faces....i know it is cruel but hey thats war and they started this not us.......
sorry if people dont like my opinion on this one...but i feel VERY strongly on this situation cus i ahve been affected directly... |
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| RavingLunatic |
Well. I hear you bro. it is indeed a horrible thing that those people died in the world trade center, the people in the planes, the rescue workers, and everyone affected by their deaths. I feel a deep empathy for them all.
and I think we should hunt down, and bring to justice the terrorists responsible, those who aided them, and those who harboured them.
but I don't think war is the answer, that is playing right into the terrorists hands. it makes the US look like bullys which is why it happened in the first place. this did not happen spontaneously, the US is seen as a source of oppression world wide, and these bombings only reinforce that point of view.
as for your contention that a nuclear weapon should have been used, well. that would never happen. it is sad to acknowledge, but the region is simply too rich in oil for the US to detonate a nuke there. also, using a nuclear weapon would violate several treaties of international law. and it would kill many more people than it needed to, in order to get the point across.
it is my point of view that the way to end this conflict, is to start sending aid to afghanistan. imply economic sanctions against terrorist nations. arrest terrorists, and have them put behind bars. but don't bomb the cities. the survivors will only grow up to become terrorists, and I don't want to see anything like september 11th happen again.
peace brother, I see you are from new york, and I understand where you are coming from. but you must look past your pain, and not be reactionary, that is not the way to have peace. |
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| RavingLunatic |
Fellow Americans, citizens of the world: Tonight we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger, and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
We cannot see inside the head of a terrorist, and yet today we understand clearly what it is he demands. A terrorist demands hate. He demands fear. Above all else, a terrorist demands war.
But a free people does not bend to the demands of terror.
Our friends and family members have died in the thousands, their bright lights of life made suddenly, brutally dark. To the world tonight I say that not one more innocent person will die in the name of this terrorist act. Not one more mother's son in America. Not one more beloved father in Afghanistan. Not one more infant child in Israel or in Palestine.
To the men and women in uniform I say: We all must hope that your soldiering days are done. Today you are our officers of law and our keepers of precious peace. You have been challenged by a terrible crime and make no mistake, this nation's hunger for justice is as strong as its love of peace. We look to you, to our police forces and our troops, to the elected representatives of our citizens, and to our friends and allies in the international community, to bring the full weight of law and of human dignity against the wrongdoers and criminals.
America is ever prepared to act, and to act alone if we must. Tonight, we know that we can instead act in concert with every nation on Earth. The citizens of 80 other nations died with our own in New York and Washington. The murder of innocents has been carried not only to America, but to Iran and Saudi Arabia, to Mexico and El Salvador, to Japan and South Korea, to Canada and Great Britain, to India and Pakistan. The world has been stunned into silence, but only to emerge with a voice more unified and sure than ever before in our history.
We will convene a meeting of the United Nations Security Council. We ask for the establishment of a world tribunal with authority to seek out, extradite or arrest and try those responsible for the September 11 attack, and any who conspire to commit similar crimes in the future. We call on our partners and friends within the United Nations to establish an international force to carry out this mandate. Let their work reach with unrelenting certainty into the shadowy world of terror and into the network of criminal finance, but above all else let them reach toward the diplomacy of cooperative effort. We join all the world in our expectation that this mandate will be swift and certain. We have encountered an unprecedented crime against humanity; we demand unprecedented action.
And so to the hawks I say: We salute you.
And to the doves I say: This is your moment. We leave behind us a century of war; we see ahead a century of peace. Already, this new century is stricken by the deepest of challenges. We look to you, to the peace builders, the peace makers and peace keepers, for your wisdom.
We cannot comprehend terrorism, and yet today we understand clearly that its aim is to remake the world. Let us not fulfill the prophecy of terror by providing it with martyrs and justifications. Even as we wipe the blood from our brows and the tears from our eyes, we cannot forget that we are the world's fortunate citizens. We must take extreme care not to provide the movements we deplore with gratuitous fuel for self-regeneration.
We know that we, too, can remake the world. Let us closely examine our actions on those fertile grounds from which terror grows. Is there more to be done to bring peace and justice to Israel and Palestine? Surely there is. Is there more to be done to ease poverty and suffering in the Middle Eastern nations so rich with oil? Almost certainly, there is. Is there more we can do to hear the reasoned and gentle voices of the many who are struggling to be heard and understood? We cannot doubt that there is.
Let these, too, be our unrelenting pursuit. And let us be clear: These shall be our goals because these are not the goals of terror. Terror demands extremism, fanaticism and war. We will redouble our efforts for peace because we are a people that does not bend, does not buckle in the face of fear.
And so to the doves I say: We salute you. Fellow Americans, citizens of the world, we will meet violence with patient justice — assured of our cause, and confident of the victories to come. In all that lies before us, may God grant us wisdom, and may he watch over each one of us. Thank you.
http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/39/worldwar.html |
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| cweb |
@tiesto: I can understand that you are angry, but dont thake this anger to this forum, thats just bull you are talking about. drop a a-bomb, cmon....
I support the "lunatic"...now it will become very interresting what the USA will do. reports, who are not confirmed btw, have told that OBL is already in Pakistan. You cant bomb Afghanistan and you cant thrust Musharaf...what do? |
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| tiesto14 |
to RavingLunatic
...i respect your opinion...especially since u phrased it in an adult manner unlike many responses peole post on this topic...so i thank you for that..:)
however:
u say that war makes us look like bullies...well if we dont declare war it will send off a message that the U.S. can be terrorized and walked on..we HAD no choice but to declare war...
Also u say that the U.S. is seen as source of oppression world wide..well u are right to a degree....granted this war is terrible for the Afghan people (which i dont care for) they will be better off after this war when the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden are gone...did you know that the Taliban treat their women like dogs...some women actually have theit clitoris removed so they dont feel sexualy towards any other men except their husbands..they are beaten and riducled....The U.S. will through harsh measures watch as a new government in Afghanistan is developed that will be way better then what they have seen in the past 10 years...children will stop dieing of malnutrition like they do now and etc....in a sense we are helping those people more then we are hurting them...
As far as the oil situation goes...The U.S. in fact only gets 20% of their oil from there...we mainly get our oil from Mexico, Alaska, South American and domestic places such as Texas....the problem is that European nations are the ones who in fact get most of their oil from Afghans etc...so if we take away that oil then Europeans will dig into are other sources and in turn U.S. gas prices will suffer...so we are not worried about the oil for ourselves but instead for other nations...and i do kinda agree that a nuclear war is sort of drastic...but i do feel we should have dropped as many bombs (non-nuclear) on the Afghan state as possible...so to annialate them ..
U say send aid to afghanistan...well we have sent them so much aid its ridiculous..Afghan people got aid before U.S. citizens who lost loved ones did...we have sent food and plenty of medical supplys over there yet we still havent helped out U.S. families the way we should have...but sent the Agfhans millions in aid and 10s of millions will be sent to them in the months to come...and us bombing them doesnt grow terrorists...it is their extremists who do...this has been going on way before we got involved...places like Beirut and Kuwait and Iraq as well ass Afghans have and ALWAYS will have terrorists...we can not chgange that...
u say this is not the way to have peace...well history has shown that inorder to get peace war is needed in many cases...such as vietnam, WW1, WW2, Korea, Cambodia, Desert Storm, and even the wars dated back to Roman times....its sad but its what we need to do inorder to show people that we will not tolerate this behavior and if you test our resolve we will take extreme measures against you ....
thats life |
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| tiesto14 |
to cweb .....
i am sorry that you CAN NOT understand what i mean...u may be right a nuclear war is too extreme..however i as well as 99% of Americans do agree that we shoudl have destroyed Afghanistan...
See you live in Switzerland and didnt see first hand the MASS destruction done not even 20 miles from my house...maybe if this happened in your country u would REALLY understand...so PLEASE before u judge my opinion put your feet in a U.S. citizens shoes better yet a New Yorkers shoes and walk in them through the corpses, burnt and mangled bodies which the majority of can not even be recognized cus they only really find pieces of people....then take a look at all the little children and watch as they are told theit fatehr or mother will never be coming home again and see as their eyes fill with tears as the holidays approach and try for a moment to embrace what they our and will be going through for years to come...
i am sorry but this post is about the war and Osama Bin Laden and people can express their opinions about it here..
if u dont like my opinion FINE..I can live with that
BUT HOW DARE YOU SAY ITS BULL WHEN U HAVENT WALKED IN THE SHOES OF SOMEONE AFFECTED...YOU HAVE SOME NERVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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