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The Effect that BT uses (pg. 5)
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | | I think what it comes down is that you find it more comfortable doing it with audio, and I find it more comfortable using MIDI, maybe because I don't find the way FL handles audio very comfortable at all. |
I'd say it does come down to that, because from what I read, your methods are in some cases more roundabout and tedious than DigiNut's. Personally, I've always considered the granulizer to be cumbersome, and if I do edits (which, unfortunately, is rare), they tend to be done with the slicer, or I export the original into Acid, play with it there, then bring in back into the mix as a sample. |
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| peejunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by thoughtlessjex
I'd say it does come down to that, because from what I read, your methods are in some cases more roundabout and tedious than DigiNut's. Personally, I've always considered the granulizer to be cumbersome, and if I do edits (which, unfortunately, is rare), they tend to be done with the slicer, or I export the original into Acid, play with it there, then bring in back into the mix as a sample. |
I use granulizer for glitchy/timestretchy stuff, it's much better for that than Slicer. For in-tempo stutter edits I'd also use MIDI and Slicer or even my drum/general sampler and set my drums up so that I can cut them off by shortening the note or retriggering. Fruity piano roll has flam and chop tools that are simply perfect for that kind of stuff.
Another thing granulizer is good for is that it's a programmable time-stretcher that can work very well combined with elastique time-stretching with it's transient detection tools and adjustable grain size, spread and slope. I can stretch a lot of stuff this way that would sound very flangy and metallic if I were to leave it only to Elastique. |
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| Apollo303 |
But you know...y'all inpsired me to do tricks I never thought of , AND ALL USING THE BRILLIANT FRUITY LOOPS , the effect I used the most to stutter was the Fruity Slicer , it was damn cool , and I used a bit of Granulizer...
I hope I'll post some of it soon...
Peace |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by peejunk
Here is another example, from a track, stab stutters are MIDI, pad and guitar are Granulizer with some random and pan on, drum stutters are more like 32nd rolls, and off course, they're MIDI. The mixdown is everything but decent (work in progress). The stutters aren't obvious, they're a bit set "back" in the mix since I didn't want them tho be anything but slight distractions from the flow.
http://www.coin-electronic.com/peej...ks_ver_part.mp3
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Don't think I'm trying to put you down here - I actually don't mind the sound of the track in general, but the drum stutters at the beginning sound arrhytmic to me.
But I see what you're talking about, and I understand what you're getting at - and now, in light of all this, can you see the difference between the type of edits I'm talking about and the type of edits you're talking about?
| quote: | Closer Now 1 (vocal stutters at the beginning and at the end)
Cool one at the beginning. Anyway, these are doable using both of my methods. With granlizer you'd need to find the start position of both places you'd want to stutter and paste them in event editor (or keyboard ctrl) and then setup wave and grain settings for that area. ty and inprecise but doable and it would sound less controlled and more timestretch-stuttery.
For the exact same controlled effect, I'd personally do it with slicer, I'd mark the sweet spots as cue points in Audiion, load in slicer (where the slices would apear on my markers) and use Chop tool and other midi editing in Piano Roll (only maybe shorten the MIDI events sto that gaps create mor stuttering). |
Go ahead and try. ;) Those edits took me somewhere between 3 and 5 hours (I kept coming back to them because I wasn't happy with the way they sounded). I don't even remember the exact process I followed, but it was something like:
1. Cut the vocal into 3 or 4 medium slices
2. Apply different processing to each - flanger, overdrive, fuzz, delay, reverb, etc.
3. Slice them all into tiny bits
4. Delete a bunch of them (not necessarily in a row) and actually do the stutter
5. Apply post-processing and envelopes to individual slices (mostly more distortion and flanger)
6. Bounce the entire thing back to audio and apply reverb to smooth it out
It's precisely this type of thing that can't be replicated in a GS or slicer tool. What the GS can't recreate very well is (a) the timing, and (b) the "edginess". In particular (b) - vocals don't have an edgy sound, so if you just repeat or timestretch the same slice it may sound lo-fi but it still doesn't work as a rhythmic element. A lot of work has to be done to make it rhythmic. Maybe other GS tools can do it like crusherX, but not the Granulizer, no way, no how.
The slicer can recreate the timing better, but you basically have to tell it exactly where to cut the slices in order to get the timing right, which is more or less the same as doing it directly to the audio. :p
But hey, if you are able to reproduce that effect in 20 minutes with a GS tool then by all means, tell me how - I would *love* to save some time on those edits!
| quote: | Closer Now 2 (drum stutter)
Again with slicer and my break exported as wav, this is more than doable. |
Yes, that was a much simpler one and there are lots of ways of doing it.
| quote: | Off the Wreckord 1 (spoken vocal stutter - mix quality isn't as good here, sorry)
The effect could be achieved by MIDI stuttering the snare drum (again, chop tool in piano roll does most of the work). |
I don't know what you're talking about with the snare drum - the stuttering is on the vocal sample.
| quote: | BUTRT 1 (glitches in the drums and a stutter on the pad - this is more like what you do with the granulizer)
Drum stutters could be replicated by exporting the break and midi stuttering the slicer. The pad effect, as you noticed, could be duplicated using thgranulizer and some automation. |
I said it is similar to what you do in the granulizer - but again, good luck getting the rhythm to be correct, and in this case there was also a good bit of pre/post-processing applied as in the first vocal stutter I posted. Automation would handle the post processing, but treating the individual slices/grains is still not possible with the Granulizer.
| quote: | BUTRT 2 (lots of glitches in the drums)
All I hear are 16th note retriggers here :) |
That edit isn't even a stutter. Listen to the background drums (not kick or snare), especially the high pitched ones like the hats and the electrobird.
The whole point of a good stutter is supposed to be that it isn't painfully obvious to the listener what was done. At least, that's the way I see it. BT and Hybrid's stutters flow with the music and the beat - Autechre's and Squarepusher's *are* the beat.
| quote: | | I think what it comes down is that you find it more comfortable doing it with audio, and I find it more comfortable using MIDI, maybe because I don't find the way FL handles audio very comfortable at all. |
Indeed - and that's why when people ask me why I switched to Cubase, the ability to manipulate audio in the sequencer is in my top 5. ;) FL just can't handle that stuff, and I think that explains a lot about this argument. :p |
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| Apollo303 |
Hey I would like to interrupt you here Mr.DigiNut!!! , I think that fruity loops can do wayyyyy to much than you think , I think you didn't get more involved into it , the Fruity Slicer is a great tool to make stutter effects...you just can switch to a 1/2 or a 1/4 time slice , and you can alter the Velocity/Cutoff/Res or even pitch , and if you want to get funky you can slice it to 1/3 beat...and see what happens , I used on Vocals (offcourse the Fruity Speech) , Beats and even to a Acid TB303 sound that was subjected to a Disto/Double Flange effect....and all the results were stunning...I'll post some if possible , but belive me (and the speech is directed to DIGINUT) you can do too much stuff with the Fruity Slicer...but you need to be creative enough ... no offence :tongue2
Peace |
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| Apollo303 |
Well...I want to throw something here...and the speech is directed to DigiNut , FRUITY can do the best stuff if you just be creative enough (no offence!!! :D ) , here is what I did yesterday to prove wrong your point of spending tooo much time on slices and stuff , I just used vocals made of e.g. Vocals (a fruity speech generator subjected to WaveDisto/Flanger) , just take a piece and slice it into 1/4 or 1/2 beat slices , you can delete some (if you want) , and then you alter the Velocity/Cutoff/Res and even Pitch to specify what you want , and all this can be applicable to Drums or even an Acid TB303 (and you can imagine what happens when you alter the cutoff of a TB303 :toocool: )...I know you already know all of this stuff as a composer but don't you think this is too spontaneous to people like you and me and I am telling you the results were Grrrrrrrreat , and stutter effect was surely the greatest...I don't think you probed enough in the FL to tell us that Cubase is better...
Thank y'all for your patience |
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| DigiNut |
Bah, why are Fruityloops users so bloody arrogant? I never hear Logic or Cubase or even ProTools users talk this way. I probed into Fruityloops *plenty*, believe me - in fact, I have seen it through the past 3 versions. I quit using it specifically because it couldn't do what I wanted it to do and the interface was really kludgy overall (and when doing complex edits, a good clean interface is absolutely vital).
Yeah, Fruityloops can make some cool effects. SOME, not ALL. The software started out as nothing more than a toy, and yes, I understand it has evolved with leaps and bounds since then, but it still has a long way to go before it reaches the "professional" level. |
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| fr0st |
| not to mention the summing buss sounds like .... |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | | Bah, why are Fruityloops users so bloody arrogant? I never hear Logic or Cubase or even ProTools users talk this way. |
Because most of them are n00bs anyway. Most of them are still excited by the thought of making something go, "OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE". They don't care much for sound quality.
Tyler C - Elsewhere, of all songs, got signed though, so Floops works for me. |
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| Apollo303 |
| quote: | | Because most of them are n00bs anyway. Most of them are still excited by the thought of making something go, "OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE". They don't care much for sound quality. |
OH YEAH!!!!...and does Tiesto's ((Traffic)) goes "OONCE OONCE OONCE OONCE"...buddy I think you were high when you replied to this...
Viva Fruity :D |
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| Axolotyl |
Uh... I think he was being sarcastic. Claiming Floops insn't 'professional' is rediculous. Its a tool and it comes down to the person using it and their technical know how.
:rolleyes: |
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| fr0st |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Uh... I think he was being sarcastic. Claiming Floops insn't 'professional' is rediculous. Its a tool and it comes down to the person using it and their technical know how.
:rolleyes: |
Sorry i dont normaly intervene in these arguments, but the fact is the summing busses in fruity do not compare to protools, nuendo, logic... There is a reason fruity cost what it does, logic cost what it does and protools cost what it does... |
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