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Trance & The Radio (pg. 2)
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| Kia Kaha |
| quote: | Originally posted by SportTrance
That is by far the worst idea I have ever heard... Ever heard the phrase "its all about the music"?
"Personally I reckon it's good that a song gets on the radio or even MTV etc ... it makes money for the artist and that keeps the scene alive...." you gotta be ing kidding me....
Trust me buddy, money and publicity isnt what is keeping the scene alive..... |
Hmmm ... "you gotta be in kidding me" God I love a good reasoned debate! :rolleyes:
So what exactly, in your opinion, IS keeping the scene alive? The hard core hero worship of a handful of internet MP3 swappers like ourselves? I don't think so mate ...
Think about '99 ... the last time trance ever was insanely popular with the public ... and have a good hard think about "why did about 95% of the best trance ever written come out in that short 12 month period?"
Were you around in those days? Man, if publicity and money can do THAT to a scene then I for one want to see more of it! |
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| flystyler |
| quote: | | i guees they jump on the "band wagon" so to speak.... |
Well i have been saying this on the forum for ages, what ever is popular people wil turn to, that is why people follow fashion, etc. I think i am individual, and have my own mind, but other people are like sheep.
Oh well that is life |
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| SportTrance |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kia Kaha
Hmmm ... "you gotta be in kidding me" God I love a good reasoned debate! :rolleyes:
So what exactly, in your opinion, IS keeping the scene alive? The hard core hero worship of a handful of internet MP3 swappers like ourselves? I don't think so mate ...
Think about '99 ... the last time trance ever was insanely popular with the public ... and have a good hard think about "why did about 95% of the best trance ever written come out in that short 12 month period?"
Were you around in those days? Man, if publicity and money can do THAT to a scene then I for one want to see more of it! |
You gotta understand... I am speaking for the U.S. here....Money and publicity are not what is keeping the scene alive here, the underground scene that is. You guys over in Europe, have some of the top DJs in the world, visiting and spinning at some of the top clubs in the world. Sure, we got a couple good top DJs spinning at Cream, as well as other major clubs around the country in major cities, but thats it...... Any American TA will tell ya this. Here in Houston, PVD, where did he spin? At some local Hyperia club downtown, small, crappy bar, bla bla..... Dave Ralph, spun at the same club... the club is crappy, but lets face it, they bring good DJs.... How did I find out they were spinning? Through their website, not through some broadcast on the radio, or a commercial on tv.
Where did Oakenfold, basically one of the top 3 most DJs in the world spin? He spun at a crappy rave in south Houston that costed 40 bucks to get in. I remember the rave got relocated about 3 different times, why I don't really know. Just shows the lack of professionalism in the deal.
In Europe, you got regular electronic vidz on your local MTV. You know what crap we have to watch all day long? This country is notorious for making a track/artist/group famous for one month, then killing it. You put any DJ here on the radio, they'll play a track, then play, then play it, then play it, until you are absolutely sick of hearing it. ATB is a perfect example. Alice Deejay is as well. This countries music industry runs off money. Love for the music here, in my opinion, doesn't really exhist. We have been feeding off Europes "left overs" for years. We got bandwagon hoppers EVERYWHERE. The music industry CEOs are laughing their ass off right now.....its obvious too.
Trust me, you put the electronic music we listen to everyday......... and put it on the local MTV and local major radio stations, it will kill the music. I've already seen it done with various electronic artists.
Now, to answer your question, what is keeping the scene alive? Well, look at it this way. Most of us, obviously are getting our music via mp3s... no question in that... and obviously, the DJs are not profitting off of that. The DJs however are profitting off the clubs they spin at. Thats where the money comes in. BUt look at this.... we are discussing who is getting paid... its not the money thats keeping the scene alive here, its the love for the music. The last thing I want, is to hear how a "top DJ", doesn't want to spin at a local club here, because the money offer wasn't high enough. Lets not forget why we love this music....Lets not forget why the DJ started spinning in the first place. No DJ starts spinning in the first place because of the money, but because they love doing it, and thats what makes this type of music so great. Look at these American bands, look at Napster.... Do you know how many American bands are still suiing Napster because they aren't raking any profits for their music? Thats sick. I lost all respect for Metallica...completely. Wanting to make money off music is naturally human, but wanting to exceed more, and display greed, like Metallica did, is sick. Music isn't about money. To top CEOs and club owners it is, but to us, the people who keep it alive, it isn't. Without us, the listeners, the music industry is nothing.
Well, sorry for making this post so damn long. I kinda had to vent as well. Anyway, I hope you got my point. I believe, that any American TA, will agree with everything I've had to say. Bringing electronic to any popular local radio station, that would play PVD right after Britney Spears, is not the best idea. Playing some AVB on MTV, right after an N'Sync vid, is also, not the best idea. You want people to respect electronic music, we all do, but you're not gonna get that from millions and millions of brainwashed listeners, we call bandwagoners. Now you ask, why do I care if any of this goes public? I care because it can corrupt the DJs by soaking their minds with the idea of profit, which can cause a lack of production of good music as well as many other things.... and the last thing I want is a bunch of posers running up to me asking me if I have heard that "new" Darude "Sandstorm"...... Hate to say it guys, but I can't stand ignorance, and thats what they show. |
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| tiesto14 |
i agree with SportTrance 1000000000000%%%%%%%%%
it is VERY different here in America....its sad to say but our society here is all F@#ked up..i mean i LOVE America dont get me wrong..but the majority of people here are followers....everything is for money and nothing is for passion anymore....
since all these Hip-Hop kids here a track on a radio station they think they are in the scene due to radio...well where were they when rave/club kids had to party in wharehouses or fields because OUR music wasnt the "IN" thing to do.....where were they when we had to call 10 different pay-phones and drive 2 hours to find a rave because they where so underground in the early 90s....??????????
WAIT WAIT i remember now...they where at their hip-hop clubs listening to Dr Dre and gangsta rap LAUGHING at our music and our cloths because it wasnt socially, MTV Total Request, Carson Daly, DJ Skribble, and radio acceptable.....back then these kids HATED ravers/club kids and thought we where losers....now they want to get in the scene because it is more mainstream...I DONT THINK SO.....when i was in raves years and years ago (and i mean BEFORE kids with glowsticks and pacifiers)u NEVER saw this .....the American kids are such posers...at first they laugh at us now they want to be with us....then when a new genre of music comes along that they here on the radio and can but a CD single of they will jump over there and then most likely have the balls to proclaim they used to be rave kids because they listened to Castles in the Sky or Rank 1 Airwave a few times on the radio, while we will still be here LOVING the trance....to them its a musical fad as with everything else they try and do...they need to get some originality and stick with it instead of mocking other peoples taste then inturn likeing cus it has become the norm.....
i know we where all new to the scene at one point, but at that point i was hooked and it wasnt cus of the radio...this was before our music was on the radio, except for pirate stations that p[layed it at 3 in the morning on a Wednesday night...but i am not a front runner...i am here for the love of the music, because this muisc takes me on a journey that nothing else in my life has been able to do...not even a drug...i feel the music..i dont listen to it...i get chills when i here it....i am not in this to be cool or to be popular..in fact when i first got in it it was considered UNCOOL to like techno/trance...so many people laughed at me , as i am sure they did to u aswell...these kids dont have the same feelings..i know i have seen them waving their glowsticks like madmen and taking their E like its so freaken cool...the only tracks they know are the ones on the radio and then go to a record store and buy DJ Skribbles Trance 2001 Platinum Edition CD and think they are in the scene...it takes more then that...formost it takes a inner passion for the music...that passion we all have and will have when our music goes back to being just another fad in America...
I will no longer call these kids who are fake
"SANDSTORMERS"
my new name for them is
"TRANCE HOPPERS" |
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| SmellsExcellent |
Kia Kaha, I agree with you and SportTrance, I also agree with you, but not about everything.
As far as I'm concerned, I live in the mose un-trance area of the US. There are NO raves to speak of, the rare overpublicized party comes maybe once every few years and along with is are a bunch of in joans thinking theyre goin out like its just another club night.
Those "bandwagoners" were just like we once were (unknowledgable and uninvloved), so if they keep goin to these ty parties and realize that theres more to electronic music than techno remixes of rap songs they may start actually liking trance for what it is. Soon more people join TA and you dont even know that they were once that kid who was askin if youve heard that new Darude song called sandstorm.
I think that as long as trance is listened to by a few people in parts of the US, or anywhere for that matter, it will eventually grow and get more mainstream. And whose to say that wont be bad?? Then we could hear our fav music all the time EVERYWHERE!
So SportTrance, what is keeping the underground trance scene here in the US alive is us, the fans. The nonexistant "above-ground" trance scene WILL be fueled by money and popularity eventually when it makes its way into our daily life. Otherwise, it will just stay underground for a few of us to enjoy, just where it is right now because there really is no public market for trance besides "us." The US is so consumed my rap and TRL and all that that they have no extra attention to pay to something thats not approved by society.
In the US artists are greedy and dont want their music downloaded, but it is the same almost everywhere else, greed is a human trait, not an american trait. So whether or not trance gets popular here, it wont be - or not be - because of MP3s.. Some artists will shun our use of AG and DC and some will embrace it and agree with the uses and postive effects of sharing. Trance's popularity and general acceptance can only be obtained by spreading it to everyone and letting it be hard by everyone. Thats not gonna happen if it stays underground.
Ok, a long message, hopefully i touched on everything that I wanted to, but im not gonna go back and check cuz im too in lazy.
Peace
-Marc
BTW, no hard feelings, opinions will differ, not everyone can share the same ideas. Thats what makes this interesting. |
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| Kia Kaha |
Hmmmm some good answers here ... I really do feel sorry for you guys stateside, I know it's a really really rigid and corporate dominated music scene, we do have plenty of posers that follow musical fashions here in UK/Europe too believe it or not, but I guess you're right in that dance music across all genres is a lot more deeply ingrained in European culture now.
However it's also fair to say that most of us got into our serious love of trance by first hearing some stuff that was being played on the radio or at a mate's house or something, I fully confess to having owned one of those ty 'Now that's what I call music' compilations with some ATB on it and thinking it was pretty cool and I knew heaps about trance ...
My point is really, I hear what you're saying about how there's so many people out there who are totally fake and only listen to a particular style of music, because of some corporate MTV got given some free crack by the record label to playlist this trance track. You'll never change that aspect of human nature, it's just part of growing up to want to be influenced by the latest trend and some people NEVER grow up believe me.
However, I personally couldn't give a flying whether there are thousands of millions of these so-called 'bandwagon jumpers' being into the same scene as me or not. I don't watch MTV and I don't listen to the radio much either (cos I'm too busy listening to downloaded livesets normally) so I honestly wouldn't even probably notice if trance suddenly became the next shopping mall teeny bopper fad or not.
They may be ignorant, brainwashed, tryhard fashionable scum who aren't in it for the long haul but so what? They wanna spend their money on music, I'd rather see PvD getting his hands on it than in Christina Agilera or Eminem :rolleyes:
Anyone is more than welcome to share my love of the music as long as they keep any bad attitudes out of my clubs. And if they piss off and listen to in hip hop again in a couple of months, well it's their loss and not mine you know what I'm saying? And if Ferry, Tiesto and the boys can make a fat handful of cash out of it even for a few short months, well it's still not nearly as much as what they deserve ... |
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| davinox |
Two things:
1) Stop the hatred towards rap! Rap has nothing to do with hurting trance! i happen to love rap, it's my second favorite love. It is not the cause of any of your problems, so don't worry about it!
I know rap has gone mainstream, but there is some good mainstream artists (esp Eminem, dear god is he talented!!!) and there are plenty of lesser known artists really showin some skills. (UGK comes to mind)
2) I agree with everything Sport and tiesto14 have to say about America. If Trance "turns pop" (which I highly highly highly highly doubt it will...) it would be horrible. Really, the only reason "Sandstorm" and "Better off Alone" were popular in the states is that they are very danceable, easy on the ears, and take 0 brain power. Great for pop!
As of actual trance, it needs to stay out of the American spotlights, because it will lose all creativity. American artists go for "targets" and make songs that can sell. *ahem* NSYNC....
What i'd really like to see is people having an awareness of what Trance is, but the ppl not taking it mainstream. Yeah, like that's gonna happen. |
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| displaced |
there will always be creativity, no matter how commercialized trance and the whole electronica genre becomes. the question is whether the general mass be receptive? probably not. i mean, it drives most of my friends and people at work nuts when i play tranc-ier tracks but are willing to listen and even tap to the beat to mainstream-ized tracks. i think that's the way with most people.:rolleyes:
as much as i don't like the idea of trance moving towards mainstream and diluting its ummm.... essence, well at least then i could buy the latest paul oakenfold's re-release featuring nsync on cd from just about anywhere ;)
anywho, there's always the few die-hard followers like ta who are willing to lend a ear and that's all trance really needs. so errr... ummm... yeah, something like that... |
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| displaced |
there will always be creativity, no matter how commercialized trance and the whole electronica genre becomes. the question is whether the general mass be receptive? probably not. i mean, it drives most of my friends and people at work nuts when i play tranc-ier tracks but are willing to listen and even tap to the beat to mainstream-ized tracks. i think that's the way with most people.:rolleyes:
as much as i don't like the idea of trance moving towards mainstream and diluting its ummm.... essence, well at least then i could buy the latest paul oakenfold's re-release featuring nsync on cd from just about anywhere ;)
anywho, there's always the few die-hard followers like ta who are willing to lend a ear and that's all trance really needs. so errr... ummm... yeah, something like that... |
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| displaced |
oh yeah and the idea of using radio as a medium to reach out's been long dead, well at least since everyone started using the internet...
if i never got connected, i would still be listening to kiisfm and definitely not the brightside of revolution over and over and over and over.... |
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| displaced |
| i should stop pressing refresh so many times... |
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| rock_roll18 |
| quote: | Originally posted by davinox
Two things:
1) Stop the hatred towards rap! Rap has nothing to do with hurting trance! i happen to love rap, it's my second favorite love. It is not the cause of any of your problems, so don't worry about it!
I know rap has gone mainstream, but there is some good mainstream artists (esp Eminem, dear god is he talented!!!) and there are plenty of lesser known artists really showin some skills. (UGK comes to mind)
2) I agree with everything Sport and tiesto14 have to say about America. If Trance "turns pop" (which I highly highly highly highly doubt it will...) it would be horrible. Really, the only reason "Sandstorm" and "Better off Alone" were popular in the states is that they are very danceable, easy on the ears, and take 0 brain power. Great for pop!
As of actual trance, it needs to stay out of the American spotlights, because it will lose all creativity. American artists go for "targets" and make songs that can sell. *ahem* NSYNC....
What i'd really like to see is people having an awareness of what Trance is, but the ppl not taking it mainstream. Yeah, like that's gonna happen. |
Umm Davinox I really dont know whether to agree with you on this.
Got to agree with the other debate going on..has to go on the radio for the music to become popular(Especially in the U.S).
how many of ur friends have actually heard you play a song ,and have decided to buy trance cd's...how exactly do you presume artists are going to make money...
By playing in clubs only?You have to be kidding me.And they have to look on a more global scale(U.S is a major source of their income or a major potential source).A thought...disregarding greed for the moment..they are playing and composing songs..have to be paid back for it...simple as that..you dont go into work as a social obligation.
Rap ..i have to disagree with you about Eminem..i dont think he is as talented as you have made him out to be..you have put him on such a high pedestal...most of his die hard fans..keep hearing his songs all the time on the air and think..wow this guy is really good..and become devout fans.I know I cant generalise but it is a personal view.
I am from Chicago(which has a decently enough trance scene around).They play Perpetous dreamer-sound of goodbye...silence-Delerium(tiesto mix) on the local trance station 24/7..hasnt made me hate the song ... |
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