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Calculating keys when beats are synced (pg. 3)
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| ieko |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
no need dude; armin key mixes. |
Actually I rememebr him admitting he doesn't *always* mix harmonically. He said something like, "there are only 12 keys, so it's impossible to always mix in key"
The perfect tune isn't always going to be the tune that'll be in key, that's what EQ'ing is for though. |
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| Ghostface |
| Having master tempo on removes some of the low end of the sound apparently as well. |
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| Omega_Blue |
these guys are doing it alllll wrong in my opinion
this is how i would do it.
beatmatch every single one of your tunes to a certain tempo... say... 130 BPM.
let's say track A is in the key of C @ 130 bpm
and track B is in the key of D @ 130 bpm
if you write down what key it's in at a consistent tempo, it doesn't matter how much you pitch up or down... the interval between the two records will be the same.
so say even though you pitched up track A to 135 bpm and the key was now... let's say... D# (Eb).. then when you match track B @ 135 bpm the key will be E# (Fb).. the same interval between D# and E# (one whole step) is the same distance between two notes as C and D (also one whole step). get it?
either that, or just remember what tunes sound good together or not.. |
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| Nic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_Blue
these guys are doing it alllll wrong in my opinion
this is how i would do it.
beatmatch every single one of your tunes to a certain tempo... say... 130 BPM.
let's say track A is in the key of C @ 130 bpm
and track B is in the key of D @ 130 bpm
if you write down what key it's in at a consistent tempo, it doesn't matter how much you pitch up or down... the interval between the two records will be the same.
so say even though you pitched up track A to 135 bpm and the key was now... let's say... D# (Eb).. then when you match track B @ 135 bpm the key will be E# (Fb).. the same interval between D# and E# (one whole step) is the same distance between two notes as C and D (also one whole step). get it?
either that, or just remember what tunes sound good together or not.. |
While this is a really good idea it often dosent work in practice, a lot of songs will be between keys at your chosen BPM, what are you suppsoed to do with these records? |
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| Thois |
| i have like 25 cd's with full tracks, how will i ever be able to remember which tracks fit well together? How do you guys do that? Or do you keep your tracks selection small? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
^^ KEY them!! :)
in my (very limited) experience, most (tho not all) songs mixed harmonically sound good together. if you can get them mixed at the right cue point, switching basslines between tunes can sound awesome.
omega, that sounds way too complicated for me ;) and a lot of hard work. youd have to beatmactch every freakin tune, THEN key them! if youve got a big collection thats a lot of time to waste ;) i started keying tunes when i owned about 80-100 songs, and it took me a fair while to get thru them all... |
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| est |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_Blue
these guys are doing it alllll wrong in my opinion
this is how i would do it.
beatmatch every single one of your tunes to a certain tempo... say... 130 BPM.
let's say track A is in the key of C @ 130 bpm
and track B is in the key of D @ 130 bpm
if you write down what key it's in at a consistent tempo, it doesn't matter how much you pitch up or down... the interval between the two records will be the same.
so say even though you pitched up track A to 135 bpm and the key was now... let's say... D# (Eb).. then when you match track B @ 135 bpm the key will be E# (Fb) |
Technically, E# = F natural; Fb = E natural:p
| quote: | .. the same interval between D# and E# (one whole step) is the same distance between two notes as C and D (also one whole step). get it?
either that, or just remember what tunes sound good together or not.. |
I can understand the logic here though! I wouldn't always want to stick to the same bpm throughout a mix, but I can see what you mean.
Correct me if I'm wrong - here's what I think...
Harmonic mixing is always something I've thought about a lot and always thought it's best done by ear. Writing the keys on the labels can keep you on track but could end in disaster. Because of the way music is, keys that are the closest together clash the worst. Don't believe me? Grab a keyboard and play and white note and a black note next to each other (a semitone apart) as a chord and feel the pain:(
So if you had 2 records that keyed nicely when at 0, but then you pitched one of them up even slightly, it would clash horribly. I'm still to get the hang of this fully, but basically if I beatmatch them and can hear them clash, then I just dont mix them.
In the long term, I hope that for ever record in my collection, I could have several that I know will sound good next in every sense. Then my selection depends on where I want the mix to go holistically.
(hope that makes sense) |
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| Zild |
| When I read this thread you guys make harmonic mixing seem ten times more complicated than it actually is. |
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| Nic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
When I read this thread you guys make harmonic mixing seem ten times more complicated than it actually is. |
agreed |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by est
Technically, E# = F natural; Fb = E natural:p
I can understand the logic here though! I wouldn't always want to stick to the same bpm throughout a mix, but I can see what you mean.
Correct me if I'm wrong - here's what I think...
Harmonic mixing is always something I've thought about a lot and always thought it's best done by ear. Writing the keys on the labels can keep you on track but could end in disaster. Because of the way music is, keys that are the closest together clash the worst. Don't believe me? Grab a keyboard and play and white note and a black note next to each other (a semitone apart) as a chord and feel the pain:(
So if you had 2 records that keyed nicely when at 0, but then you pitched one of them up even slightly, it would clash horribly. I'm still to get the hang of this fully, but basically if I beatmatch them and can hear them clash, then I just dont mix them.
In the long term, I hope that for ever record in my collection, I could have several that I know will sound good next in every sense. Then my selection depends on where I want the mix to go holistically.
(hope that makes sense) |
Nah,
It just depends on knowing what effect the change will make and knowing not to play tracks together that are over the 3% range in difference to eachother. Kind of like bending the string on a guitar... just puts it out of key enought to sound clangerous. I generally stick by the 3% difference thing and it's not an issue.
You also need to have a fairly good idea of what's faster and slower too but it comes with practice.
Sadly most people (Not saying this is you by any means) who say it's better to do it by ear are very seldom able to do it and usually are just under the illusion. There are a few people who can (I can through having practiced) but it takes time to develop and isn't necessary. By knowing the keys of your tracks you remove one more area of potential nastiness from you mix. I still put them on my records although I can pretty much remember most of whats in my record bag anyways.
Cheers
Nem |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ieko
Actually I rememebr him admitting he doesn't *always* mix harmonically. He said something like, "there are only 12 keys, so it's impossible to always mix in key"
The perfect tune isn't always going to be the tune that'll be in key, that's what EQ'ing is for though. |
Agreed,
there is the occasion that arrises and you just know the place will respond really well to a tune... DROP IT I say.
But this falls under the section of reading the crowd and let's face it, it is the ultimate DJ skill to understand and takes time to perfect.
Cheers
Nem |
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| raveanddie |
guys,
since the dawn of the harmonic thread, has there been any new softwares that can find out the key of your tracks?
there was a small java app before, but it was just plain inaccurate. |
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