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buying synthesizers (pg. 5)
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| xmotleyx |
After reading all of this I really have to reply.
I am new into this wonderful and crazy world of prodution, too. Currently, I am doing a lot of reading. In any case, recently I have been searching for the answers to the questions you are asking. And, I came up with the same conclusion as Derivative. However, on my own.
And, Dude, you really should take Derivative's advice.
Moreover: In an earlier post it was mentioned to you to get a midi keyboard to use with your potential synth. You seemed to be cool with that. Well, dude, get a midi keyboard and use it with some softsynths. Then the problem is basically solved.
Cheers, (and Derivative kodos to you for being concerned enough to write so much helpful information out.) |
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| Derivative |
cheers man.
serban. you can make dark trancey sounds on pretty much any polyphonic synthesizer. practically all of the virtual analogues these days are capable of making 90% of the stock sounds in modern dance music. if youk now what you are doing. if you dont know what you are doing you wont be able to make sounds for .
i still think you should reign your wallet in, but whatever. ive said my point and the onus is on you now. and whoever is paying for it.
about the different types of synths...
you have to realise that the difference in sound is very subtle and amounts basically to the behaviour of the synth and how you play/program it. there is no fuking best for [insert type of music]. so stop with this line of inquiry. what you put into a synth = what you get out of it.
i appreciate the next bit may sound like complete gibberish to you in parts. so read up about subtractive synthesis. i would be astonished that you could shell out a grand on a synth and not know the basic principles of subtractive synthesis and the modules that make up a basic subtractive synth. so get reading or you will be very very confused.
if you listen to the raw waveforms of a virus, in particular the saw wave, they are not very bright. the saw is buzzy as it should be but it doesnt have that top end that the nord lead saw wave does. or the jp8000 for that matter. but you can make bright saw wave leads on a virus - it just takes more work, and the route you use to take it will probably involve either: 1) setting the oscillator to sound in a higher register 2) increasing frequency modulation of the first oscillator and tuning out the second (which leads to a characteristic, bitty, 'scream' effect) 3) overdriving the oscillator (which can make it sound less cloudy and more harsh (in a minimoog kind of way) 4) saturating the filter, which will make the shaped sound harder and distort filter resonance giving an aggressive, gritty, 303 type effect to the behaviour of the filter. there are other ways of doing it too. although its easier to make darker, bassier sounds on the virus because it just seems to be that way by default. some people like this sound. others dont. note: you cannot make supersaws on a virus. well you can. they just dont sound like supersaws. partly because access will never find out from roland exactly how they made their supersaw oscillator. and partly because the virus has no feedback oscillator. and partly because it doesnt have the bright saw wave of the jp8000. when i say 'supersaw' im talking about *that* trance sound - the string like, ferry corsten lead sound. the one you hear on too many trance tracks to care mentioning
you can make dark, brooding sounds on a nord lead 2 as well though. it just takes alot more effort since its raw waveforms are characteristically bright and cutting and it has a number of features like FM, in built distortion and a fuking huge unison that just make it alot easier to make bright hard leads on it. note: dont expect to make carbon copy supersaws on this machine either. you can come close on alot of virtual analogues including the nord and the virus. but close doesnt != exact and alot of people just want easy access to *that* sound.
and for fuks sake, try them out before you buy them. im just repeating myself on this but what the hell. TRY IT OUT BEFORE YOU BUY IT. you may hate the way a virus behaves. you may hate working on virus. you may hate the patching system on the lead 2x (and yea, its retarded). you may hate the fact that the 12 db/octave filter on the nord lead becomes really thin and quiet when the filter resonance is turned up.
you may even hate the sounds you can come up with on either machine, limited as they are, by the knowledge of the person who is programming them. dont expect to make instant trance. it doesnt work that way.
the majority (if not all) of the presets on the nord lead 2 completely suck and do not reflect what the machine is capable of.
a good proportion of the factory presets for the virus b fall into 1 of 3 categories: (1) amusing, cheesy pluck sounds, (2) rude bass sounds. likewise, many are not reflective of what you can do with the synth.
many are designed to be starting points for further programming and experimentation - this is probably why there are no presets on the virus that use up all 3 modulation matrix slots on the virus b.
also. one final important note: sonic foundry acid pro learning curve + virus b learning curve = serious mindfuk.
just be prepared for some agonizing months (maybe even years) in trying to get to grips with your equipment. |
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| serban |
| thanks a lot derrivative... that was long and thoughtfull... |
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| serban |
| ive decided to get a virus B, and then get the midi keyboard separately... now my last question is which keyboard do you guys recomend... thanks... |
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| dj jasonF |
an evolution mk 461 (did i forget the model...??) would be fine... lots of controllers and 5 octaves. and yes any midi keyboard with a midi output will work with anything that has a midi input.
in my opinion just go out and buy whatever you like (ofcourse try it firt. dont buy something cuz you like the color..) synths are just toys anyway imo. you can make gr8 things with these toys or you can just play with them for fun and do nothing or you can even get sick/bored with them in a month and dont even bother to sell them when you finaly realise that "it wasnt for you".
oh. and ofcourse get online and search for audio demos from the synths you are intrested in. |
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| armanivespucci |
| Roland v-synth anyone? |
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| everyMan |
| Try to get a midi keyboard with aftertouch. Mine doesn't have this feature and I miss this option.. I don't think you can simulate aftertouch in FL like you can simulate velocity, am I wrong ? |
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| Derivative |
| quote: | | synths are just toys anyway imo. you can make gr8 things with these toys or you can just play with them for fun and do nothing or you can even get sick/bored with them in a month and dont even bother to sell them when you finaly realise that "it wasnt for you". |
a synth is NOT a toy. jesus. do you give toys to your kids that can generate white noise at an ear destroying 120 decibels? thought not.
| quote: | | Roland v-synth anyone? |
please, everyone. why in the living christ are you recommending complicated, ludicrously expensive synthesizers to a person who does not yet know how to get sound out of a VST yet?
am i the only one who thinks this is just totally INSANE?
or is it because mum and dad are paying? |
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| armanivespucci |
| Well, he can always use the presets. |
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| dj jasonF |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
a synth is NOT a toy. jesus. do you give toys to your kids that can generate white noise at an ear destroying 120 decibels? thought not.
or is it because mum and dad are paying? |
oh yes it is.. just like a car or just like anything thats fun.
and who ing cares whos paying??? the guy has money and whants to spend it. |
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| serban |
| thank you jason... exactly what i was thinking... |
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| Derivative |
eugh. my advice is based upon my experience of owning an access virus b. i think its sound advice and ive had a year to reflect on this. take it whichever way you want. where i come from its generally not really smart to go and spend a large amount of money on something you have no experience of and may not even like. not to mention the cost is in addition to that huge uni debt you no doubt have hanging over you - i graduated last year and im still 15 grand under despite working it off for 8 months. i think this is a reasonable point of view.
i guess i sound a bit like your mum but hey. do you think it is a good idea to spend this much money on an instrument given all of the above? probably not but you are set in your ways and theres no changing that. so fair enough.
but acting as if its a toy is really getting the wrong idea. a car isnt a toy either. i really dont see the logic in that. the number of synths you see floating around on auction sites simply reflects a part of this mentality. its easy to pick up a virus b and think, this is gonna make all my tunes sound better. only they find its annoying to program, has really serious flaws like a useless multimode, non global delay/reverb, is generally difficult to get to grips with. with regards to 'just use the presets', id like to see anyone make a deep dark trance tune out of the virus b factory presets - they are all pure cheese + some weird almost unusable (but interesting) sound experiments courtesy of howard scarr.
i think this advice is good. i think it should give you a more accurate picture of what you want to purchase. but i guess some people just have to learn the hard way. so good luck buddy with whatever it is you are gonna use this thing for... |
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