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what do u think ? (pg. 2)
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
the same is happening in germany and i don't see how this is socialism.
anywho, people need to get off their asses and go find a job. this works in America and people still bitch that welfare is little and stuff and they don't have money for college, well that's what financial aid is for. i think education is free in france like it is in germany right? if so then there's no problem. go to school and get a job. in america we value people who work their asses off and not rely on welfare for generations. no offense to anyone ofcourse. |
Well the problem in Germany and France isn't that the higher educated ppl isnt looking for jobs (trust me these ppl are), the problem is with government policies that makes it unattractive for companies to employ ppl. So there are not enough jobs. That plus that a big bunch of lower classes, have as your said, lived on welfare for way to long without lifting a finger, this is costing money and is in turn increasing taxes making the country even less attractive and so on...
So the problem with these countries are the holy rights of employed, together with the holy rights of the ppl that arent doing in their lives.
The American system is waaaay better when it comes to this. I still think education should be free tho, in that way everyone get equal opportunities and it is also in the best interest for a country to get as many ppl highly educated as possible. |
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| h0tsweetbabyd0l |
yeah i agree we need to make serious reform people are taking advantage of the welfare and who are paying?people who work yeah paying for some lazy asses well i make the difference with people who really need it and some who are too lazy to get up and work every day and these people are ruining all ......so i think we should cut off the financial help to people who don't want to work maybe after that they would finally decide to go work ......
and about positive discrimination im in favor for prestigious universities especially the ones in paris who are usually full of rich people ....since this new reform some students from the lower class who are good students can go to these schools too |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
But ofcourse there's no jobs out there :rolleyes: |
Oh there are jobs. There just too many people who believe they are too good to take those jobs--even if it's just a stepping stool to get them to the next level. Instead those jobs get exported to people in China and India who are more than willing to happily do the work. I had one of my most pleasant customer service experiences ever a couple of months ago when I needed to rebook my plane reservations. I had an Indian customer service rep and I was ready to rip her a new one, but she was so qualified and pleasant about her job that all I could say was, "Thank you! Thank you sooo much for your help!" Shocking. Customer service in the U.S. has gone to because people think they're too good for it. Then they bitch when they lose their income. |
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| Lepanto |
America's education system is free too in a way, if you can't pay you get financial aid (in which case you get more money than just your tuition) and if you have good grades then it's free period, so that's why I said that people can't bitch that college is expensive or anything.
I know Germanys and France problems about the employment and all. I know for a fact that people sit on welfare for generations and now when Shroder (sp) was cutting welfare and trying to force people out to work it created chaos. I think that the euro also played a part in ruining economy by ing up prices and income and all but that's besides the point.
To fix a problem, you need to find the basics that are in the way. I realize that businesses don't hire too much because they don't make too much money. But there are jobs and fields where people are always needed, such as teachers, doctors, pharmacists, construction workers, city workers, plumbers, etc.
This is a problem that's extremely hard to fix without stimulating economic growth. But we in the US had the same problem during the depression and Roosevelt pulled us out of it. I think another problem is that people want change overnight and don't want to wait around for it. Any kind of change will have to come withint a decade or more. So people have just got to start working on fixing their only problems along with working with politicians who are trying to help them (hopefully) as well. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
The American system is waaaay better when it comes to this. I still think education should be free tho, in that way everyone get equal opportunities and it is also in the best interest for a country to get as many ppl highly educated as possible. |
Free education looks awesome on paper, no doubt, however when you offer something for free, the quality of said good or service inevitably goes down the toilet. Those rich universities are so prestigious because they are so well funded. Fortunately there are usually some open windows for less fortunate folks to get aid, scholarships, or a grant to gain access, however they must be willing to do the extra work to gain access. It may sound unfair for a less affluent person since it seems out of reach, but in the same breath, it is absolutely unfair to the people who fund the university to see their efforts diluted by turning around and giving it away for free. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l
yeah i agree we need to make serious reform people are taking advantage of the welfare and who are paying?people who work yeah paying for some lazy asses well i make the difference with people who really need it and some who are too lazy to get up and work every day and these people are ruining all ......so i think we should cut off the financial help to people who don't want to work maybe after that they would finally decide to go work ......
and about positive discrimination im in favor for prestigious universities especially the ones in paris who are usually full of rich people ....since this new reform some students from the lower class who are good students can go to these schools too |
I don't see why you shouldn't just take the one best qulified? What if you have 1. better grades, 2. better previous experience 3. higher intelligence, than person B, and you both applied to this prestigious university, and you didnt get it cause he had poorer parents than you!? How much sense does that make? Not a whole lot. Positive discrimination can suck my ass. |
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| h0tsweetbabyd0l |
| mmh yeah from this view i agree with u erik |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
this works in America and people still bitch that welfare is little and stuff and they don't have money for college, well that's what financial aid is for. |
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. It depends on what school you go to and your backround and your families backround. For example, you can only get a certain amount of money in grants (unless you're native american, a midget, or left handed), and then after grants you apply for loans. Well, if your parents have bad credit, and you have NO credit, kiss loans goodbye, so kiss education goodbye. Not just anyone can get financial aide, and there's a list and order of who gets so much. And depending on the school you went to, even if you have a high GPA, you still might not manage to get into a decent University. Financial aide only covers SOME of the costs of an education, not all. So all in all, it is very possible for someone to not have money for college. I'm a prime example. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Free education looks awesome on paper, no doubt, however when you offer something for free, the quality of said good or service inevitably goes down the toilet. Those rich universities are so prestigious because they are so well funded. Fortunately there are usually some open windows for less fortunate folks to get aid, scholarships, or a grant to gain access, however they must be willing to do the extra work to gain access. It may sound unfair for a less affluent person since it seems out of reach, but in the same breath, it is absolutely unfair to the people who fund the university to see their efforts diluted by turning around and giving it away for free. |
Just because these unis are free, it doesn't mean that they are not well funded.
In my ideal world, every university get a certain amount of government funding, which is enough for most universtities. However, if you want to have something special, you can have a fee for you university. BUT if you do, I think the government should provide with students loans for everyone who wants to. In that way everyone have the opportunity to go to every school they can get into.
If you are smart you can get a uni degree in america, true, BUT, not everyone is smart. And in America, if you have rich parents, and averaged smart, you can get into a hell of a lot more than you can if you are equally as smart but have poor parents, which isnt fair at all imo. Also it's a complete waste of intelligence from a wider perspective. The smartest the better, not the richer the better. |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
thank you. It's funny how me (so far) and my parents have accomplished more than any one who stands around union square (a place in the village where people usually hold rallies and protests and bull like that) and bitch how there are no jobs. My parents came here with nothing but an education that America doesn't recognize unless you a doctrate and you still have to defend it. Now my mom is a pharmacist with her own business and my dad is a site coordinator for a huge hospital facility. I'm in college and have a job for 42 hours a week. But ofcourse there's no jobs out there :rolleyes: |
This, is actually accurate. People claim there aren't any jobs because they are lazy, and refuse to put in the effort into getting a job. For example, just recently four of my friends applied for a certain job, and then a few days later I went and applied for the same job. I was pushy, and made it evident that I really wanted this job, and so, I got the job whereas my friends, did not. I've never once had a problem finding a job, even in a city as packed as the one I live in now. If I need a job, I have a good one in a matter of maybe one or two days. It's in the technique you use when you look and when you apply, and your actions following the applying. |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. It depends on what school you go to and your backround and your families backround. For example, you can only get a certain amount of money in grants (unless you're native american, a midget, or left handed), and then after grants you apply for loans. Well, if your parents have bad credit, and you have NO credit, kiss loans goodbye, so kiss education goodbye. Not just anyone can get financial aide, and there's a list and order of who gets so much. And depending on the school you went to, even if you have a high GPA, you still might not manage to get into a decent University. Financial aide only covers SOME of the costs of an education, not all. So all in all, it is very possible for someone to not have money for college. I'm a prime example. |
Squirlly, you just agreed that there are jobs but no colleges out there? Bro, I'm sorry but I think you haven't got the whole picture of all the colleges.
Everyone could it. There are plenty of ways.
Shakka this is what I meant by people making up excuses. OK so you didn't get into Harvard because you're Polish or some. So there's no city schools (that are extremely highly regarded)? There's no community college from which you could transfer? Financial Aid pays everything, including TAP, even if tuition is like 40 gran, i.e. NYU.
here in NYC people choose city universities, CUNYs, over going away and get EXCELLENT college education. Tuition is only like 2,500 a semester. But, ofcourse no one has that kind of money and can never pay it off if they loan right? LAZY!!
Bad credit? You can get tuition loans in YOUR NAME! That you won't have to pay off for 4-6 years AFTER you graduate.
This is the country of oppurtunity and anyone can do whatever they want. Hence, movie directors, theater producers, politicians, scientists, etc come from nothing yet somehow make it.
Sorry, it IS so :) |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
America's education system is free too in a way, if you can't pay you get financial aid (in which case you get more money than just your tuition) and if you have good grades then it's free period, so that's why I said that people can't bitch that college is expensive or anything.
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Again, that's not true. It depends on what school you have under your belt (which High School), and where you come from. The government is NOT willing to just shell out money for no reason. It is very difficult to get financial aide. I am more than qualified to get financial aide, and I've gotten a whopping 10% of my tuition for EACH semester. I still have to come up with another 90% in order to attend classes. With loans I managed to only get up to 30% being paid. Let me ask you if you think I qualify. I had a 3.97 gpa in high school, my family's income for 2003 was actually 0$, for 2004 it was 12000$, my father is disabled and cannot work, and I'm the only American born to attend a Uni. (Although I did spend most of my life in Europe with the rest of my family, I was actually BORN here). Want to talk about a ed up system? |
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