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what do u think ? (pg. 3)
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
Squirlly, you just agreed that there are jobs but no colleges out there? Bro, I'm sorry but I think you haven't got the whole picture of all the colleges. |
Yeah, I just did. There are jobs at starbucks, mcdonalds, music stores etc. Come from a poor bad backround? Kiss education GOODBYE.
| quote: | Bad credit? You can get tuition loans in YOUR NAME! That you won't have to pay off for 4-6 years AFTER you graduate.
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That would work!!! Providing you have ANY credit or GOOD credit. If YOU yourself have BAD credit or NO credit, they won't give you enough loans to get your education. ;) |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
how can the goverment make sure everyone has an equal chance to get a job? |
Come to Canada and find out... 
Yes, lets give the job to the minority (which really is an oxymoron here in Toronto) Native Indian rather than the more capable black/white/hispanic/whatever because the government says we don't have enough Native Indians... :rolleyes: |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Come to Canada and find out...
Yes, lets give the job to the minority (which really is an oxymoron here in Toronto) Native Indian rather than the more capable black/white/hispanic/whatever because the government says we don't have enough Native Indians... :rolleyes: |
That would really not be giving everyone the equal chance though, quite the opposite :p |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Yeah, I just did. There are jobs at starbucks, mcdonalds, music stores etc. Come from a poor bad backround? Kiss education GOODBYE.
That would work!!! Providing you have ANY credit or GOOD credit. If YOU yourself have BAD credit or NO credit, they won't give you enough loans to get your education. ;) |
yes they would. Because it's a college load not a home mortgage :)
come from a poor home? rich home? black? white? WELCOME TO COLLEGE :D |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Again, that's not true. It depends on what school you have under your belt (which High School), and where you come from. The government is NOT willing to just shell out money for no reason. It is very difficult to get financial aide. I am more than qualified to get financial aide, and I've gotten a whopping 10% of my tuition for EACH semester. I still have to come up with another 90% in order to attend classes. With loans I managed to only get up to 30% being paid. Let me ask you if you think I qualify. I had a 3.97 gpa in high school, my family's income for 2003 was actually 0$, for 2004 it was 12000$, my father is disabled and cannot work, and I'm the only American born to attend a Uni. (Although I did spend most of my life in Europe with the rest of my family, I was actually BORN here). Want to talk about a ed up system? |
No it is not. I worked in the financial aid office here on my campus and i know how works. Your high school doesn't matter as long as you have a good average or better yet...A HIGH SAT SCORE. If you indeed have very little, 12,000 dollars in income than you would recieve full financial aid. what do you think the point of it is? The system is very good. I don't know what you were applying for and if the system is really all that different on the East Coast, dude but it works for sure.
BTW, I'm not trying to be an or anything and infact I applaud you for trying to make the best of it. And I'm sure there are those cases where one is for the most part, completely royally ed but we still have the opportunity over what is happening over in EU right now. |
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| Psy-T |
well, regarding education, i think the best idea is to just have loans for everyone, no free education (except maybe primary school and highschool).
just give everyone the capability to get loans that are enough to cover their entire education expenses regardless of background.
what's wrong with this idea? |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Yeah, I just did. There are jobs at starbucks, mcdonalds, music stores etc. Come from a poor bad backround? Kiss education GOODBYE.
That would work!!! Providing you have ANY credit or GOOD credit. If YOU yourself have BAD credit or NO credit, they won't give you enough loans to get your education. ;) |
College loans are the easiest credit in the world to get. Mainly because most students applying for them do not have any credit yet.
My parent aren't wealthy by any means. My mom finished college a few years before me and wasn't working, but paying student loans and my parents were still paying on their mortgage and payments on 2 cars. They didn't have the money to back me, but somehow during 4 years at an ivy league school, I managed to take out what with interest will be about $60,000 worth of loans (and that was on top of the $18,000/year in grants that I was getting from my school) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
since there seems to be such an anti-welfare lobby in this thread i just wanted to point out that though there are welfare abuses, the stereotypical image of the bludger, with no intent of finding a job, providing for themselves and just laying around all day being lazy just isnt true.
yes, of course it happens. but to equate welfare recipient with lazy bum is pretty unfair.
in regards to the overall question re social justice, equality, equality of opportunity etc; a govt may try its best to achieve some, or all, of those goals. its just not possible in a liberal democracy. disparate rates in wealth (rightly or wrongly) engenders inequality. money is power & opportunity.
i like your idea of loans for everyone psy-t :) well, assuming it couldnt all be free for everyone i mean. |
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| squirrelly |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
College loans are the easiest credit in the world to get. Mainly because most students applying for them do not have any credit yet.
My parent aren't wealthy by any means. My mom finished college a few years before me and wasn't working, but paying student loans and my parents were still paying on their mortgage and payments on 2 cars. They didn't have the money to back me, but somehow during 4 years at an ivy league school, I managed to take out what with interest will be about $60,000 worth of loans (and that was on top of the $18,000/year in grants that I was getting from my school) |
Really cause I got a grand total of 2.5 grand in loans. That's all I was alotted. |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by squirrelly
Really cause I got a grand total of 2.5 grand in loans. That's all I was alotted. |
From who?? I have 2 different federal loans and a private loan that was set up by my school. |
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| Shakka |
this . I still have about $30K in loans I'm paying off.
Did you know that lot of student loans never get repaid? Crazy. You'd think they'd expect a little integrity. |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
We who work our asses off appreciate others who also work their ass off. I don't put in 60 hour weeks so I can listen to some douchebag bitching about how I make more money than him. Those that bitch about not having as much as others are consumed by envy, IMHO. |
In Denmark we are currently seeing the top educated people leave the country for good (the "brain drain"). Most socialists get offended that the highly educated people get a free education and then leave, some are even suggesting that they should pay back all the money that was spent on their education. What they fail to see is that it is exactly this disrespect that makes clever people leave.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
So you're for things like affirmative action? positive discrimination is still discrimination. Just because you put the word "positive" in front of it, doesn't necessarily make it a good thing and doesn't necessarily mean that someone isn't getting the short end of the stick. You can paint a piece of purple, but it's still a piece of . |
Agree. Positive discrimination is . It's one of those concepts which make fumes come out of my ears just by thinking about it.:mad:
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Well the problem in Germany and France isn't that the higher educated ppl isnt looking for jobs (trust me these ppl are), the problem is with government policies that makes it unattractive for companies to employ ppl. So there are not enough jobs. That plus that a big bunch of lower classes, have as your said, lived on welfare for way to long without lifting a finger, this is costing money and is in turn increasing taxes making the country even less attractive and so on...
So the problem with these countries are the holy rights of employed, together with the holy rights of the ppl that arent doing in their lives. |
I think that the problem in socialist countries, such as France, Germany, and Denmark, is that the rich are quite heavily taxed, which means that the burden of supporting layabouts is hidden from the lower middle class. Therefore, the lower middle class can sympathize with the layabouts. Consequently, there's not that much of a pressure on people to support themselves - and there won't be until we get a flat tax rate system.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
America's education system is free too in a way, if you can't pay you get financial aid (in which case you get more money than just your tuition) and if you have good grades then it's free period, so that's why I said that people can't bitch that college is expensive or anything. |
In the US there's quite a difference between having a college degree from Columbia and one from Brooklyn College - seen from a jobhunting perspective that is. I've been staying at both places and the educations themselves are pretty much similar, with excellent teachers lecturing at both institutions, however, if it says "Columbia" on your exam papers you're at an advantage when you go hunting for a job. So, no, there's not equal opportunity for poor and rich in the US college system.
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Free education looks awesome on paper, no doubt, however when you offer something for free, the quality of said good or service inevitably goes down the toilet. |
Disagree. In Denmark the universities are free to attend, but they do get funded by government. Why should it be that the source of funding should have a negative effect on the quality of the teaching?
Btw. I've been to Berkeley, Columbia, and CUNY, have friends who've been at CMU and UPenn, and have a colleague who used to teach at the Max Planck institute in Germany, and we all agree that the quality of the students and the education they get are worse than or equal to the one given at Aalborg University (none of us are patriots btw.). The difference seems to be that the really well-reknowned universities are capable of attracting the top players in their fields, and that the research therefore is much better. However, good researcher does not necessarily mean good teacher.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
BTW, I'm not trying to be an or anything and infact I applaud you for trying to make the best of it. And I'm sure there are those cases where one is for the most part, completely royally ed but we still have the opportunity over what is happening over in EU right now. |
Even if you're not trying you're pretty much succeeding. In several threads you have spewn your ignorant ideas about the state of things "in EU", and whenever your mistakes are pointed out you leave the thread or ignore it. If you don't know what you're talking about, stfu or at least prefix your comments with an AFAIK. |
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