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Ecstasy Causes Death? (pg. 12)
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| lücid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_Blue
pretty much, all of the studies on MDMA are incomplete at best. no one really knows. for every study that curses it, there's another that backs it up, you know? |
that's why i do all my studies on myself.  |
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| all-nite-freak |
| quote: | Originally posted by Swamper
'normal' people with careers, families and no history of deviant behaviour doing it on a weekly basis they saw a doomsday scenario - one where pleasure (to the extreme) was fueling the average citizen rather than productivity.
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Its called Montreal....
Nothing like bumping into your dentist or notary at 10:30 am rolling like mad in some afterhours joint. |
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| lücid |
| quote: | Originally posted by all-nite-freak
Its called Montreal....
Nothing like bumping into your dentist or notary at 10:30 am rolling like mad in some afterhours joint. |
c'mon... don't dentists know rolling is bad for your teeth?! :toothless |
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| all-nite-freak |
| quote: | Originally posted by lücid
c'mon... don't dentists know rolling is bad for your teeth?! :toothless
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you have to see it to believe it...our posession laws are nowhere near as strict as in the us.On summer nights you can see tons of people blazing joints on the main downtown and even if you walk right by a cop they do nothing...the bad side is that younger people have easy access because of this... case in point, the girl in this story lived 40 minutes away from Montreal.(Who cares about bad teeth, the important thing wasthat this dentist in question had no gag reflex:toothless ) |
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| Mommy420 |
| I just happened upon this article, because I am always a little late reading new posts, I am a mom after all. And I do have something to say. I am older than most of you, yet I have been rollin for almost 11 years and to tell you the truth after all the pills I have done, at one time, I might add, I have never died. LOL. I feel that E gets a bad rap I have studied it for a long time and have read all the erowid and MAPS articles on it and to this day someone dying from e is very rare. On Discovery Health they did a story about E and Ghb and even one of the doctors or whoever it was said that basically you could eat all the E you want and it wouldnt kill u, now GHB on the other hand if you OD on that from what I have seen, they let you lay in the hospital till you come out of it or you die from it. I guess they dont have anything to bring you out of it. And I dont beleive that young teeneagers should EVER do E. Their mind is not ready and neither is their body. Just my thoughts.:toothless |
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| dj_mdma |
Righty ho, i'm back and here is my opinion on everything. I studied pharmacology in depth for three years at university, and one of my final units was the pharmacology of narcotics and recreational drugs. My tutor for the lecture on MDMA is one of the few places in the UK that has a license to hold and experiment with MDMA.
MDMA was synthesized back at the turn of the century by Merck as well as many other amphetamine derivatives. Chemists were trying to make drugs that would make soldiers and the like be amazing in war by keeping them awake, more vigilant etc. MDMA wasn't much good as it wasn't like speed or methamphetamine in that respect. Loved up soldiers don't make good fighters ;)
Alexander Shulgin was one of the first physicians to find out the psychological effects of MDMA and began experimenting with it. We've all heard the story's of MDMA being used for relationship therapy, so there is no need to talk further on that subject.
At the same time that all this MDMA research was going on (late 60's or so), amphetamine was also legal. It was used in nearly everything, from diet aids to pep pills. However, the effects of amphetamine were becoming more widespread and worrying, such as strong psychological addiction. This caused great worry and eventually, governments worldwide decided to ban it. At the same time they ALSO banned ALL related chemicals due to fears of similar effects. this caused MDMA to be caught in the blanket ban.
Shulgin still experimented and championed its benefits.
Anyhow, like with all media articles about "Drugs" "ECSTASY!1!11!abc!!!" and "RAVessSSS!!!1!!" they rarely ever get it factual.
I DONT BLAME the media that much though! Imagine what sort of uproar that would emerge if they WERE NOT seen as condeming the drug, thus indirectly condoning it! of course this works both ways as any publicity is good publicity.
In relation to the media, they fail to distinguish between MDMA and "Ecstasy". An "ecstasy" pill more than likely contains some MDMA, but will also contain various other things which will be derivatives of the chemical process such as MDA, MDEA and so forth.
The stories of pills being laced with rat poison, glass, heroin etc are bull for one reason. Business. It is not in a drug dealers interest to kill you, how will he make money off you? Business also comes into the fact as to why heroin and cocaine are not used to cut "ecstasy" as they are expensive, and thus it is not cost effective.
MDMA is mainly known as a drug that causes the release of seratonin (5HT) from seratonergic neurons. We know that a lack of seratonin is linked to depression, thus a great release of it causes euphoria, and eventually, once the drug wears off, you will be left with a deficit of it, causing the comedown. however, MDMA does not just cause the release of 5HT. It also has agonistic actions on various 5HT receptors on neurons in the brain. Also, we have many different types of 5HT receptors in us, which all have different sorts of actiobns. I won't go into it in detail now, but you can PM if you would like them.
MDMA also acts on other receptors, including noradrenergic ones, dopaminergic ones, histamine and some others which i forget. The combined effects of all these cause the outward effects of MDMA that we all know and (for some ;) ) love.
The side effects of MDMA are numerous, but bear in mind that every drug that exists on the planet today has side effects.
MDMA can cause oxidative damage to the neurons it acts on. This is attributed to the breakdown process of the drug, the "running down" of seratonin stores, and prolonged effect of causing the release of 5HT.
Oxidative damage does NOT necessarily mean the death of neurons in the brain. The interesting thing about prolonged (and i will elaborate on the word prolonged) exposure to MDMA, is that neurons will get damaged, but won't die. Instead, they'll continue to function at a reduced level, but surrounding neurons will adapt to the new environment as best they can to attempt to keep the homeostasis of the monoamines in the brain constant. This is an example of the functionality of our brains.
That is the main side effect in our brains. obviously, the lack of seratonin can cause depression briefly, but once that is regenerated, you're back to normal...just about. Constant usage will decrease the efficiency of the regeneration process. Think of it as "burning the candle at both ends". By giving youself time to recover, you will be able to maintain optimum brain health. In addition, these effects won't cause death. You can't directly die from being too sad.
MDMA has peripheral effects too. It acts in the hypothalamus (i think!) which controls the heating system in the body. This raises your body temperature, BUT its not too huuuuge levels. At most, you'll get to a temperature like that of a fever, which our body does naturally.
Now this heating effect leads on to the need to maintain our water levels. And this is where the controversy appears. You can either not drink enough, and dehydrate and overheat, or you can drink too much and end up suffering from oedema.
I rarely find that people drink too little these days and end up overheating and collapsing from lack of fluid. Clubbers and the like are educated enough to drink fluid whilst on MDMA. The real danger is from drinking too much.
drinking too much water has the effect of essentially "diluting" all the fluid processes in the body. There are lots of ionic processes that rely on water levels to function normally, and tipping the balance too much is bad. Too much fluid can also cause oedema and pressure on the brain etc etc etc.
HOWEVER, to suffer from this, requires a HUGE amount of water. We're talking about a 2-3+ gallons over the course of 6 hours. It is very difficult to drink such a quantity of liquid, as our stomach can't hold that much, we pee, and we sweat. I think you'd notice your friend furvently drinking water like there's no tomorrow at a club :stongue:
The thing with drinking too much water is that you can do it EVEN if you are not on MDMA. MDMA does not make you suddenly decide to drink gallons of liquid.
The other side effect of MDMA that can be fairly serious is rhabdomyolysis, which is the breakdown of muscle tissue. Its very rare, and can cause kidney failure and liver damage. This is the condition that i use when someone has died from what seems like idiosyncratic circumstances. Its also what i'd say is the "Allergic Reaction" to the drug. This is the rare case where someone was unfortunate to not be compatible with the drug.
Before everyone villifies MDMA for that effect, let me remind you that allergic reactions are 1: Rare, and 2: Can be attributed to nearly anything! Penicillin, Insect Stings, and on a more softer scale, lactose and gluten. You may argue that lactose and gluten are "food" products, so its not dangerous per se, but penicillin is a completely legitamate drug, and insect stings are not particularly dangerous chemicals/drugs. Remeber that EVERYTHING, the body ingests is foreign in some way or another, be it food, narcotics, or medicines.
In relation to the girls death, it is impossible to comment until the tox screen/autopsy comes back. Without the appropriate information, judgement of the drug that has been highlighted, should be witheld. It may not have been MDMA that killed her. It could have been a multitude of factors, some of which have been mentioned by me. Sadly, it is unlikely that we'll ever obtain that information, and thus MDMA will continue to suffer a worse reputation than it deserves.
For more information on how to prevent oxidative damage, keep seratonin levels at optimum and keep your brain in good health, whilst doing MDMA, search for my previous posts on the matter or PM me.
:) |
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| Ang ' ela_ie |
| Im not reading that. Im assuming you support MDMA use, dj_mdma. |
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| UWM |
| I just like it because it makes you create mental armies to fight the flavor of a piece of gum :) |
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| dj_mdma |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie
Im not reading that. Im assuming you support MDMA use, dj_mdma. |
i'm pro choice. do what you like, its your own body :)
and LMAO @ rob! teh winar is yu0!! |
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| lücid |
| quote: | Originally posted by UWM
I just like it because it makes you create mental armies to fight the flavor of a piece of gum :) |
:haha:
speaking of gum flavors, i bought this weird gum in Greece with Chios mastic oil that would be insaaaaane to taste when you're rolling. i'm not sure if it would be insane in a good way or bad way, but i'm willing to give it a shot and find out.
btw, great post, dj_mdma! 
this is also an interesting read for anyone who has the time - http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/index.html |
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| medinaM5 |
| trident tropical twist gum owns while rollin...i probably went through 5 packs...loses its flavor fast, but the first 5-10 mins is :crazy: |
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| Ang ' ela_ie |
| Thats what Im chewing right now. I love it. I probably chew 4 pieces a day. |
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