|
T-shirt Hell strikes again! (pg. 4)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by thesauce23
it doesnt matter what religion is being picked on. people have their beliefs man. respect that. thats all. to some, that might be the thing in their lives they treasure the most, so why would anyone get a kick out of making fun of it? so low-class |
Quite simple answer really. In today's age of 'right' where people like to push their rights on others, this 'freedom of expression thing (well, there are still some restricts) allow people to express themselves however they feel like.
Like I said, mocking other people's beliefs may be low in taste, but people also realize that you also have a right to ignore. If someone says something stupid, so what? Is it going to harm you to hear other people's stupidity? (And what about your stupidity affecting others?)
If you're that offended, fine. Politely ask to refrain from such comments. But there's nothing (and shouldn't!) that stops a person from expressing himself. (or herself)
If Allah and Mohammed is offended by people depicting pics of them, I'm sure they'll sort those people out when they die. Until then, learn to tolerate that other people have their right to stupidity. |
|
|
| thesauce23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Like I said, mocking other people's beliefs may be low in taste, but people also realize that you also have a right to ignore. If someone says something stupid, so what? Is it going to harm you to hear other people's stupidity? (And what about your stupidity affecting others?)
If you're that offended, fine. Politely ask to refrain from such comments. But there's nothing (and shouldn't!) that stops a person from expressing himself. (or herself) |
ur absolutely right. i never denied that. and im not offended. im just alittle um disappointed? that other people would cheer on the stupidity knowing full well its not right. Freedom of speech and expression is perfecty fine, right. but when u promote or cheer on retard , thats just um stupid?
| quote: | | [Until then, learn to tolerate that other people have their right to stupidity. |
LOL. sold |
|
|
| daves |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
People need to get a sense of humour.
And more importantly, open their minds a bit.
Until you can prove that these images do a harm of some sort, STFU.
I don't care if a guy walks around with a neo nazi shirt. I'll just think he's a ing idiot. |
difference there is, the nazi cause means nothing to you. it holds no value to you... so yeah why would you give a ?
to truly understand you need to consider something truly valuable to you... something at the core of your system of beliefs if there is something like that (we don't all consider things in that way) and then that would have to be mocked and thrown up on the world stage.
most of us don't understand, but we dont try right? so long as there's a next source of s and giggles...? |
|
|
| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
It specifically says 'You shall not take the Lord's name in vain' on the Ten Commandments of Chrisians (and jews), but you don't see Christians (even fundamentalist ones) having a riot over it, do you? |
You can’t relevantly compare people’s way of life when their culture is so much different from one another.
And as far as Christians not having riots – every religion has its group of extremists and I can assure you the Christians do go to great lengths to spread their message as well. You just don’t see it everyday on T.V, Islam has 1.4 Billion followers across the globe; most of which live in 3rd world countries with the worst conditions all across the board ( that you see on TV everyday ). When you insult a religion whose followers have nothing or very little freedom in their country they will definitely get insulted much more easily then an average Christian who lives in a 1st world country with a good amount of rights.
In the end, religion is one of ‘those’ topics. Defiantly does not belong on a music forum, and you always have people who want to argue on the topic...but the fact remains – in order to logically argue your point you need to have some sort of experience in all aspects of religion. |
|
|
| VERTiG0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
you know you'll probably be called anti semetic for laughing right?:eek: |
Anybody that calls me anti-semetic for laughing at a satirical t-shirt deserves to be shot in the face by a tank. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by VERTiG0
Anybody that calls me anti-semetic for laughing at a satirical t-shirt deserves to be shot in the face by a tank. |
Damn. I wish I had some server space so I can upload this clip of guy actually getting shot by a tank. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by daves
difference there is, the nazi cause means nothing to you. it holds no value to you... so yeah why would you give a ?
to truly understand you need to consider something truly valuable to you... something at the core of your system of beliefs if there is something like that (we don't all consider things in that way) and then that would have to be mocked and thrown up on the world stage.
most of us don't understand, but we dont try right? so long as there's a next source of s and giggles...? |
Of course the Nazi cause offends me. It's evil, pure and simple. As a human, I would not tolerate such ideology.
Having said that, I would allow neo nazis to say their piece because it is their right to do so. (as offensive that may be) Until it can be proven that they are doing an actual, measurable harm with their ed up ideology (such as racial hatred motivated killing) I would allow them to say their stuff.
As for values, it is so subjective and I find it to have others question, even mock my values gives me more of a reason to have a moment of introspection to see why I hold some values very dear.
Once people stop being so defensive about things that do no harm to them, society might just be a bit more tolerable towards each other. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
You can’t relevantly compare people’s way of life when their culture is so much different from one another. |
No, but there are common basis that each culture should have. Such as angry mob burning buildings is dumb. Or killing a girl because she was raped therefore 'polluted'.
| quote: |
And as far as Christians not having riots – every religion has its group of extremists and I can assure you the Christians do go to great lengths to spread their message as well. You just don’t see it everyday on T.V, Islam has 1.4 Billion followers across the globe; most of which live in 3rd world countries with the worst conditions all across the board ( that you see on TV everyday ). When you insult a religion whose followers have nothing or very little freedom in their country they will definitely get insulted much more easily then an average Christian who lives in a 1st world country with a good amount of rights. |
I am not questioning their right to be offended. I am questioning their reactions which is very primitive and dare I say 'barbaric'. It smacks of ignorance and intolerance considering that to my knowledge, Mohammed didn't say go kill the infidels who seems to have insulted him for depicting him in a picture. (I may be wrong on this, and feel free to correct me)
Christians also acted this way during the medieval times due to ignorance and intolerance. (probably worse than Muslims today) But they learned that angry mob mentality is not the way to get others to stop offending them.
| quote: |
but the fact remains – in order to logically argue your point you need to have some sort of experience in all aspects of religion. |
I was brought up as a conservative Christian, and I used to get annoyed when people insult Jesus and God. But I learned that they have their rights and I have mine and their rights happen to include right to express themselves. So I stick with arguing them using logic and realism b/c if there is God, I'm sure when we die, he'll sort us out.
"I do not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to death your right to say it."
-Voltaire |
|
|
| thesauce23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by daves
to truly understand you need to consider something truly valuable to you... something at the core of your system of beliefs if there is something like that (we don't all consider things in that way) and then that would have to be mocked and thrown up on the world stage.
most of us don't understand, but we dont try right? so long as there's a next source of s and giggles...? |
Exactly |
|
|
| thesauce23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
You can’t relevantly compare people’s way of life when their culture is so much different from one another.
And as far as Christians not having riots – every religion has its group of extremists and I can assure you the Christians do go to great lengths to spread their message as well. You just don’t see it everyday on T.V, Islam has 1.4 Billion followers across the globe; most of which live in 3rd world countries with the worst conditions all across the board ( that you see on TV everyday ). When you insult a religion whose followers have nothing or very little freedom in their country they will definitely get insulted much more easily then an average Christian who lives in a 1st world country with a good amount of rights.
|
Thats exactly what I was saying. Some of these peopel don't have anything except the hope/faith that religions bring to them. Now if thats all they have in their lives and someone is demeaning that, how else can u expect them to react? |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by thesauce23
Thats exactly what I was saying. Some of these peopel don't have anything except the hope/faith that religions bring to them. Now if thats all they have in their lives and someone is demeaning that, how else can u expect them to react? |
It does not excuse them from reacting the way some Muslims have.
Same could be applied in reverse. Some people who grew up only in religious traditions sometimes lack the... sense to look from other people's point of view, because they are taught right and wrong only from their religion's point of view and do not see right and wrong from other people's religions (incl atheists and agnostics) which do not share same view of right and wrong. (And for a long time, why being a 'heretic' or an 'infidel' was bound to get you killed.
I find that some of the best philosophers are those who do have a strong faith in a religion, but also can see from other people's perspectives.
If religion is all that a person has, I'd feel sorry for them, because whether we like it or not, religions sometimes are very frail things, and can be attacked rather effectively, esp. against those religious people who do not know a lot about their religion. |
|
|
| thesauce23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
I find that some of the best philosophers are those who do have a strong faith in a religion, but also can see from other people's perspectives. |
Other's point of view? ok what is a non-muslims point of view on those shirts? please explain..
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
If religion is all that a person has, I'd feel sorry for them, because whether we like it or not, religions sometimes are very frail things, and can be attacked rather effectively, esp. against those religious people who do not know a lot about their religion. |
dude no offense, but who the f*ck r u to feel sorry for them? honestly thats pretty ty. instead of feeling sorry for them, how about respect their beliefs, since they dont have much- leave them the alone or help them out by donating something to them, instead of sharing ur opinion which they really dont need to hear.
Totally agree with u on the religion being frail. Thats why I personally dont follow something, (that in ideology) is supposed to bring people together, actually segregates people further apart.
I think honestly ur responses are more towards the radicals who are burning down and attacking westerners instead of all muslims or other religious followers.
AND BTW, THIS IS A GREAT "CONVERSATION". So BORED AT WORK, I NEED THIS |
|
|
|
|
