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We can justify whatever we want.
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| Marc Summers |
Lets say ONE of the reasons we invaded Iraq because Saddam was a brutal dictator who needed to be brought to justice. (I don't care what you think the war was for, this isn't the thread to post your thoughts on that matter.) Is it right to justify his actions?
I believe it is. I almost flipped on my teacher because he said we have no right to justify his actions because we (United states of America) killed countless numbers of native americans.
Here is my "beef" with that statement:
1. This happened over 200 years ago (Compared to Saddam's campaign against the kurds 20(give or take) years ago)
2. Everyone who committed the genocide of the native americans is dead
3. Boohoo, assimilate or build a casino, it's over
I, myself have native american roots. My great grandfather was Cherokee. Most members of my family have been native american sympathizers, and always drag me to native american festivals where they dance around with feathers, climb on poles, wrestle alligators, and tell stories about humans turning into eagles. I don't care. They are annoying. They talk like they have wisdom but they really are just clinging onto an obsolete culture that has absolutely no significance.
Andrew Jackson, the man who ordered the exodus of thousands of cherokee tribespeople, including some of my ancestors, is dead. Everyone from that era... IS DEAD. There is absolutely NOTHING that ties us to the trail of tears, except the name of our country. If we were still killing native americans now, my opinion would be different. But, saddam hussein, is still alive? Oh, please, bring him to justice.
I am tired of native americans whining. If you want your land back so bad, by all means, resort to terrorism. In the meantime, please exchange these chips for cash.
Would you call Germany, "Hypocrites" if they denounced a country for committing genocide? Would you call England "Hypocrites" for denouncing a country for imperialism? What about the french, if they denounced a country for having a bloddy revolution?
Remembering the past is always a good thing, but LIVING in it... is definately not. |
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| donnybrasco |
:haha: @"Please exchange these chips for cash"
So your Teacher really said that about the U.S. killing Native Americans and comparing it to Saddam's killing of Kurds, etc.?
You're right; All this other stuff about Native Americans did happen well out of our lifetime. I mean, how far back does one have to go to find evidence of persecution? And why does it have to stop on one race or people once you do find some? I'm sure ALL races and peoples have been persecuted at one point or another, and could make a case for sympathy.
I don't really think this is the reason we went to war over there anyway, but that aside, I too am tired of people in the U.S. at least who don't live in the here and now, preferring to stay un-assimilated because of long-dead relatives who fought each other.:rolleyes: |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
Lets say ONE of the reasons we invaded Iraq because Saddam was a brutal dictator who needed to be brought to justice. |
| quote: | U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948:
" Our real task... is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military- economic supremacy]... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization... we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better."
George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning. U.S. State Department. 1948 |
A list of dictators supported by the US, many of them quite brutal:
Dictator - Country
Abacha, General Sani - Nigeria
Amin, Idi - Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo - Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio - Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal - Brunei
Botha, P.W. - South Africa
Branco, General Humberto - Brazil
Cedras, Raoul - Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio - Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek - Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo - Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo - El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn - Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel - Liberia
Duvalier, Francois - Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude - Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King - Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco - Spain
Hassan II - Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand - Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez - El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko - Zaire
Montt, General Efrain Rios - Guatemala
Noriega, General Manuel - Panama
Ozal, Turgut - Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza - Iran
Papadopoulos, George - Greece
Park Chung Hee - South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto - Chile
Pol Pot - Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni - Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios - Guatemala
Salassie, Halie - Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira - Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. - Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. - Nicaragua
Smith, Ian - Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo - Paraguay
Suharto, General - Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas - Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael - Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed - Pakistan
Yes, clearly "one of the reasons" we invaded Iraq was to remove a brutal dictator we supported in the past and sold chemical weapons to which he used to gas the kurds and the US turned a blind eye to it. Surely our track record reflects our desire for spreading/preserving democracy abroad. :rolleyes:
EDIT:
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
A list of dictators supported by the US, many of them quite brutal: |
Many.. not all.
I know we still support leaders, putin being the worst, IMO. Yes, something has to be done about it.
But the comparison that is making me angry is to the native americans. |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Yes, clearly "one of the reasons" we invaded Iraq was to remove a brutal dictator we supported in the past and sold chemical weapons to which he used to gas the kurds and the US turned a blind eye to it.
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| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
Lets say ONE of the reasons we invaded Iraq because Saddam was a brutal dictator who needed to be brought to justice.
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"Lets say" hints at a hypothetical question.
And, we weren't the only ones to suplly Iraq with weapons. But two wrongs don't make a right. ;)
We also supplied both Iran, and Iraq during the war, as did the soviets, and brazil (brazil, wtf?) Which is kind of sad because it's kind of like elementary school kids pushing two kids to fight. :mad: |
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| Dervish |
If you were to justify his actions wouldn't that mean something along the lines or letting him off with them rather than perhaps judging him?
Either way, Sadam wasn't the reason given to the world for the invasion so it doesn't matter. |
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| St_Andrew |
| You can justify whatever you want as long as you have a rightful cause, which you didn't with Iraq so it doesn't really matter. |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
Many.. not all.
I know we still support leaders, putin being the worst, IMO. Yes, something has to be done about it.
But the comparison that is making me angry is to the native americans. |
Don't pay attention to that list mate. Many of those were supported before they turned their true face on.
As presidents, Amin started as the darling of the U.K, Israel and acceptable to USA. He became their enemy later.
That was the first one that struck me, because I researched the Butcher of Uganda before. So, that list is unreliable already. |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
Don't pay attention to that list mate. Many of those were supported before they turned their true face on. |
yeah wtf :(
I hate liars |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dervish
Either way, Sadam wasn't the reason given to the world for the invasion so it doesn't matter. |
:conf:
He wasn't? Who was in charge over there? |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
You can justify whatever you want as long as you have a rightful cause, which you didn't with Iraq so it doesn't really matter. |
Sounds subjective to me, man. Everybody's got opinions. |
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