|
God Help Us All !!! (pg. 7)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| donnybrasco |
| Trancer and I agreeing. What IS the world coming to? ;) |
|
|
| washout |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
Relax what is with you? I can't wait till ultraviolet comes out. The movie is looking good and why must you look for a fight just admit it. Your the one looking for a fight. Just let it go man. You are so messed up from anger its just fruitless to be this way. Just lighten up man. |
lol that about sums it up.
i think he is works with retarded or has retarded friends.
he comes out of the closet at ta and tries to be intellectual.
ive read his posts, i think hes trying too hard. |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by washout
lol that about sums it up.
i think he is works with retarded or has retarded friends.
he comes out of the closet at ta and tries to be intellectual.
ive read his posts, i think hes trying too hard. |
whilst youre not trying hard enough.
he might be pretty left field some of the time, but at least he's rational. grow up kiddies. btw, some people are just good at expressing themselves with the written word, just coz youre not doesnt mean anything :rolleyes: |
|
|
| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by washout
lol that about sums it up.
i think he is works with retarded or has retarded friends.
he comes out of the closet at ta and tries to be intellectual.
ive read his posts, i think hes trying too hard. |
I'm amazed that you people are always so concerned about me on here. I'm sorry to have insulted your intelligence, but what's done is done and there's really no need to be so immature about it. |
|
|
| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
whilst youre not trying hard enough.
he might be pretty left field some of the time, but at least he's rational. grow up kiddies. btw, some people are just good at expressing themselves with the written word, just coz youre not doesnt mean anything :rolleyes: |
The thing is, the times when I actually try to be more articulate are the times the you guys start yelling at me, telling me that you can't understand what the hell I'm even saying.
Whatever, I can't win so I'm not even going to try. ;) |
|
|
| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancer-X
I'm amazed that you people are always so concerned about me on here. I'm sorry to have insulted your intelligence, but what's done is done and there's really no need to be so immature about it. |
I am concerned for you because I love you, man. You are just so great and insightful I just can't live without you. How would I live without you you are my air my water my carbon monoxide. You the sun under the sky!! |
|
|
| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by metalgearsolid
I am concerned for you because I love you, man. You are just so great and insightful I just can't live without you. How would I live without you you are my air my water my carbon monoxide. You the sun under the sky!! |
Could you PLEASE prove your love to me by cutting back on your PM's? :conf: |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by donnybrasco
What? Your arguments make no sense. Once war was declared on Germany, it was done. Fight or die. FDR knew this. He didn't need to see how the war was progressing in order to know that one side was going to win, and one was going to lose...and he wanted England on the winning side. Jumping in to help a.s.a.p. with things like lend-lease and convoy assistance was CRUCIAL, as was noted by Churchill in his memoirs.
I think Bush may also know a thing or two that you don't about what is necessary right now in the world...only time will proove it for sure.
|
You seem to be viewing the events that transpired with 20/20 hindsight vision once again. Were you not just saying, one post prior to the one you're making now, that FDR had no idea that Hitler would committ genocide? Did you not just say that FDR didn't know whether the war would draw out into a long protracted conflict that encompassed the entire world? So why should the US involve itself in a European conflict in 1939 when there was insufficient evidence to suggest that the war was anything but a regional dispute, that the Europeans could deal with, that would simply fizz out in due time? It wasn't "fight or die" once Germany invaded Poland. If that was the case, than why did Britain and France sit put behind their defensive fortifications until Germany blitzkrieged through Belgium? There was certainly room for negotiation until Hitler's ambitions became fully realized with the invasion of France. Tacit American aid to Britain is not equivalent with a declaration of war against Germany, and it came after German hostilities with Britain and France started at which point I would have been in favor of war.
As for Bush, I'll say again don't even try to compare the two conflicts. They ARE NOTHING ALIKE. Nothing about them. A better analogy would be if Hitler tried to remilitarize the Ruhr valley and France and Britain fought back diplomatically and sent in inspectors to make sure the Ruhr valley was demilitarized. Yet in the middle of this, despite no conclusive findings, Britain got fed up and declared war with no other provocations. No violation of the naval tonnage limits, no demands for czechoslovakia, no demands for whatever. Comparing anything to hitler or WW2 is a pretty stupid move in general which is why there's something called Godwin's law.
| quote: |
That support was foregin support only. Here in the states, the idea was STILL not a popular one, even in the north. Much the way some of Bush's actions in Iraq are not popular today, I think that in time, we will see the benefits of not having Saddam in power any more.
We're so close to this point in history right now, that to make a finite judgement about Bush's Presidency would be impossible and not wise, imho. |
Ummm you know there is such a thing as a moral victory. Are you saying that the legacy left behind from the emanciapation proclomation are it's economic and political benefits? We're perfectly capable of making finite judgements about current administrations. To differ in any respect of the imagination is simply unamerican. What do you forget Republican criticisms of Clinton's Balkan war escapade??? Criticism that ended up being wrong, which the public wisely realised as evidenced by opinion polls, but it's ing HEALTHY. And I'm not sure if you're aware of the term, but it encourages accountability. Something this administration has consistenly lacked. |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
so, what makes france's sovereignty so much more important than poland's? or the czechs for that matter?
|
Well nothing. And the Europeans clearly valued Polish sovereignty as they willingly gave Czechoslovakia away so maybe you should ask them that question. I'm willing to allow Europe to sort out European differences unless something demands intervention. To this day I don't understand why America entered WW1 (asides from German unrestricted submarine warfare). You kidding me, we got involved in a conflict that arose from the alliance system, European nationalism, and Colonialism??? There has never been a more pointless war from America's standpoint.
| quote: |
and the US entered the war coz of japan's attack, not becoz of germany's invasion of france. whether hitler was involved in genocide or not, it was a regime worth fighting.
|
Well yes. FDR wanted an excuse to go to war with hitler but he didn't have one. It's only through sheer dumb luck that Hitler declared war against America after the Japanese attack that FDR got what he wanted. And yes Hitler was a regime worth fighting knowing what we know today even if he didn't espouse genocide. This is because he had territorial ambitions to control the entire region. I mean hell, Iraq was a dictatorship ... Iraq tried to capture more power in the region ... should we have invaded them for the sake of replacing a hostile dictator??? No, if we can contain them, than there's no reason to jump to extremes.
| quote: |
how can you say it wasnt "worth" fighting til france took it? are american lives worth more polish? what if france & england had appeased hitler yet again thus allowing him to invade russia early? would that have been a reasonable time for the US to get involved? how about the peoples of africa that were being killed by the italians? or the chinese by the japanese? all aggressive wars on unprovoking countries. doesnt or didnt a country like the US have an obligation to go to the aid of these nations?? |
"The USA should not be the policeman of the world!" Isn't that the mantra that nearly EVERYONE (every non-american) chants??? It's a mantra I happen to agree with and it's something I don't sugarcoat by applying it to the conflicts that I don't "like". If a situation warrants intervention, such as genocide, than I'm all for it. If it's an aggression that hurts America's interests than I'm all for it. That's why we adopt alliances and the such. Yet if it's another vietnam or somalia than why involve yourself in a region you have no place being unless there are substantial human rights abuses? I don't see Europeans being too concerned about Serb aggression during the Balkan crisis, yet we're the ones expected to intervene? Europe became "worth" fighting when our allies (france and Britian) came under attack. Before then I didn't see it so. |
|
|
| tathi |
| quote: | Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture originated by Mike Godwin on Usenet in 1990 that states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
There is a tradition of protocol in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.
It is considered poor form to raise arbitrarily such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful. |
never heard of that one before but it's so true, thanks occy ;) |
|
|
| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by tathi
never heard of that one before but it's so true, thanks occy ;) |
No problem :). FYI to everyone who keeps referring to me as occ, the preferable nickname is rider :p. It carries over much better if I ever meet you in real life. |
|
|
| tathi |
| awww but occy sounds soooo cute :p |
|
|
|
|
