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What the bible says about Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH) ...
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| CaTcH21 |
What the bible says ...
God revealed a prophecy to Moses that a Prophet would arise that would be like him. In this small booklet, the Muslim scholarly claim is weighed against the traditional Christian claim. |
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| Fir3start3r |
Your enigmatic style is a little confusing...
First I say that the war is about terrorists that happen to be Muslim extremists and you go on this Islamirant about how it's spreading like wildfire and that I'm ignorant.
Now you support it with some babbling link that basically drones on about how the Bible says nothing about Muhummed.
Wow, I'm convinced... :rolleyes:
It's one thing to have an opinion, it's quite another to just throw out some wild link.
The object is to have a somewhat credible link/source and give your thoughts based on the article to support your arguement.
Am I just supposed to read your mind (again)?
I really have no clue what you're trying to say. :conf:
All I can deduce is that you're a Muslim pom-pom cheerleader.
Nothing wrong with that, but let's stick with what the real arguement was; terrorism and civil liberties; lets not get into some religious pissing contest because that trap is all too easy to fall into... |
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| CaTcH21 |
One thing i can say is you an absolute dumb fuk ...
What i am starting with is the root to the current problems ( which is not really current as the war against islam started a long time ago).
BTW: i was an ignorant christian just like you |
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| sponger |
| quote: | Originally posted by CaTcH21
BTW: i was an ignorant christian just like you |
and now your muslim? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by CaTcH21
One thing i can say is you an absolute dumb fuk ...
What i am starting with is the root to the current problems ( which is not really current as the war against islam started a long time ago).
BTW: i was an ignorant christian just like you |
I see...
So by calling me names, having the grammar of a 6 year old and spaming the PPD with Christianophobic threads I am somehow the, "[A]bsolute dumb fuk"...
Interesting... |
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| Lepanto |
| lol ok. how about everything the kuran that talks about killing people and enslaving them? oh ok nothing wrong with that because this "War" is about muslims everywhere...i lol :) |
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| emc^2 |
| Damn...:eek: ...another fanatic. *sigh* I guess mysery loves company. about time Cyrus King, Hardcore Trancer, and few other numbnuts got some new friends. Tho, I tend to think it's all just one person, posting under nicks of his different personalities or imaginary friends. |
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| Kapedan |
| quote: | Originally posted by sponger
and now your muslim? |
yeah..he didnt like the whole not blowing up and not having 3 wifes and not having them covered up from thier face to thier toes..:stongue: |
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| digitul punk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
lol ok. how about everything the kuran that talks about killing people and enslaving them? oh ok nothing wrong with that because this "War" is about muslims everywhere...i lol :) |
Umm it's one thing to actually quote facts and another to make assumptions. The Quran mentions JIHAD which happens to be mordern self defense - meaning that you can kill someone under the circumstances of defending yourself and nothing more. Oh and slavery has never been a part of Islamic theologies. Matter of fact Christianity and Islam are the two religions that have to most things in common and to everyone else in this thread. Ahmed Deedat is actually a very very credible man as he used to be a Christian (priest i think not too sure) himself and then converted to Islam and wrote a book about how he read up both of the religions in detail over a long period of time. So i wouldn't call that link "bull". Only an opinion backed by a fact. :) |
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| Lepanto |
umm it's another thing to be around here and know that i wrote about this in another thread. btw, don't try to school me on islam, i know alot more than you think. are you an idiot? jihad is a STRUGGLE, there are two, greater and lesser. in modern times people don't always agree on which is greater and lesser, traditionally the greater jihad is a struggle with yourself, to free yourself and surrender yourself to the will of God. christianity and islam are VERY different.
This is a review about a book called "Prophet of Doom: Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammad's Own Words", I think you might like this. Its a bit of a read, but its very interesting.
Reviewer: Haroon Rasheed "Haru" (Kashmir, India)
This is the book that changed my life. I am extremely grateful to the author for writing this book and saving my soul from eternal damnation. God is not hatred, He is love. He is not a Jihadi, He is a Savior. He does not tell to kill, but to forgive. His heaven is not a place of all sorts of perversions but a place of peace, truth and love. I give 10 out of 10 for this book and salute the author and the publisher for bringing out this book. It will save the souls and lives of many more muslims from eternal damnation.
Before I go any further, a word or two about perception. Everyone thinks that what he/she believes is true; What others believe is immaterial or incorrect. But the fact remains that out of the 4 major religions - Judaism/Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Athetism/Communism, only one is true. Believing in one, automatically makes the others false. People might not realize this; but it is precisely this mutual exclusion principle that holds. There is another group which states that all worship the same God, even though the paths of worship are different. They compare God to a mountain top and religion to different paths to get there. Is this is so, then why do our holy books contradict one another. Which is true - Killing/Jihad will get us to Heaven(Islam) or Forgiving(Christianity), Reincarnation(Hinduism) or Resurrection(Christianity), Man is God(Hinduism) or God became Man(Christianity), There is a God(Religion) or there is no God(Athetism), Idol worship is the greatest sin on Earth(Christianity) or God wants all Idol Worshippers killed(Islam) or Idol worship is the path to God(Hinduism). This diffence is one thing that Craig Winn brings out in his book.
Reading some of the reviews over here amazes me. Fellow Muslims (and some Ladies married to Muslims) are trying to defend Islam saying that it is fastest growing religion. Does fastest growing mean that it is not bad? Islam is fastest growing because it is concentrated in the underdeveloped tropical regions where the population is multiplying faster than rabbits. Conversion wise, the number of people who become Muslims (mostly ladies married to muslims are forced to convert) are slightly greater than the people who leave the religion. If conversion is an issue, then know this - Every year about 2,000 Kashmiri Muslims become Christian. In Iran, the figure is 15,000 per year. In Indonesia, it is 30,000 per year.
The above reasoning on the part of muslims reminds me of the Quran where the fact that birds can fly, the existence of the sky and heaven etc are used to prove that Allah exists!! This is the height of Foolishness. Craig Winn has nicely highlighted this in his book.
Fellow Muslims like to fool themselves by saying that the God of the Muslims is same as the God of the Jews and the Christians. Is this true? Consider the following (extracted from Craig Winns Book):
1. The essence of the Bible is the 10 commandments. Where are 10 commandments in the Quran? The Apostle of Allah broke every one of the 10 commandments.
2. Is it possible that God who states in the 6th commandment "Thou shall not Kill" will say in the Quran, "Slay the Idol worshippers wherever you find them"? (Because they refuse to worship Allah). No this comes from Satan.
3. Is it possible that the God who promised Isreal through Abraham "I will bless thee who blesses you and curse thee who curses you" will say through Muhammad "Kill any Jew who falls in your Power" and "The Bestial transformation occured when Allah converted the Jews into Apes"?
4. The Bible was written by 46 people over 1200 centuries, yet none of the verses are abrogated(cancelled out), while the Quran which is the work of a Man has lot of verses abrogated out even though it was revealed over a period of only 20 years. Reminds me of the verse from the Bible "God is not a man, that he may be threatened; neither is he as the son of man, that he should be WAVERING"(Judith 8:16). The Quran is not the work of God, but of Man.
5. The Quran has satanic verses in it. How did they land there if the Quran is the work of God and Muhammad is the greatest prophet?
6. The Quran claims that Jihad is the only sure way to reach Allah's paradise. Killing is a sure shot way in Judaism/Christianity to reach Satan's paradise. Does this mean that Allah and Satan are the same? Because YAHWEH claims in the Bible "For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings" (Hosea 6:6)
7. Allah wants to be feared, Yahweh wants to be loved. Allah wants all Muslims who leave their religion like me killed. But Yahweh is all about free will.
8. Allah has created woman as pleasure things for Man, Yahweh has created woman as a equal partner for Man.
Being an ex-muslim and knowing the Quran and the Bible in and out, I can state that what Craig Winn has written is true. He does not mince words. He calls a spade a spade. The world needs more of such people. Like Craig Winn, People like Socrates and Jesus too had to suffer because of such Truthful behaviour.
Reading the Hadiths/Sunnah gives the clearcut picture of Muhammad. He is what Craig Winns calls him in his book... Problem is most fellow muslims have never even seen the Hadiths, forget about reading them. And the Quran is a mystery of its own. Most of the verses in the Quran are open ended, leaving a lot to guesswork, unlike the Bible. Out of 6000 odd verses, only 700 can be understood in their entirety. Out of the rest, another 1200 are completely beyond the understanding of man. Only Allah can understand them.(Quran 3:7).
Whats more, Muhammad's great commandment is "If a Muslim leaves his religion, then kill him". Isa Al-Masih's(Jesus) great commandment was "Love one another and pray for those who persecute you". Can there be any comparison between Jesus and Muhammad. One is life, the other death.
The word Muslim means "True Believer" or "Believer of the True Religion". As True Believers, I will advise all Muslims to read this book by Craig Winn with an unbaised mind. (Most of the Muslims who have written the one star reviews have not read Craig Winn's book). I am sure you will leave Islam like I did 1 year back. This books correctly depicts Muhammad as a thief, a raider, a pervert and whatever the Hadiths describes him as. But most importantly you will realize that Muhammad is what I have come to believe - Allah himself.
Christianity and Judaism too have their own share of bad things. But they pale in comparison to the deeds of Islam. Islam in the name of religion have killed more people that all of the other religions put together. Even as late as 1915, Turkey was 30% christian. So what happened to them? They were taken and dumped in huge pits and buried alive. Many others were loaded inside barges and sank in the Mediterrean sea. A total of 1.8 million christians were killed. Reason - They were non-Muslim. Again consider this, Pakistan had 23% Hindus, Christians and Sikhs as late as 1977. 23 years later, the non-Muslims number 3%. What has happened to the rest 20%? Killed, Molested, Forcibly Converted. A few have been lucky to escape to India. In my own state Kashmir(India), the plight of Kashmiri Pandits (Hindus) is well known. They have been gunned down for not converting to Islam. This is the true essence of Islam which Craig Winn brings out in his book. This is the reason also why there is a mad rush among Kashmiri's for Christianity i.e. From the Sword to Peace. As in 2005, the number of hidden muslim believers in Christ in Kashmir was estimated to be about 30,000 apart from the 30,000 traditional christians. i.e. A 50,000 increment in the last 15 years.
The greatness of a religion is seen in the behaviour of its people. As you sow, you shall reap. It is just a cause and effect relationship. In every Islamic country there is hell. Look at countries like Bangladesh, Pakistan and even Kashmir. The Kafirs(Infidels - Non Muslims) have been wiped clean by the Muslims. The life of non-muslims in these countries is worse than the life of Dogs and swines. Islam is not about Heaven, it is about Hell; not about life, it is about death. I once again salute Craig Winn for bringing out this book. Hats off to him. I recommend everyone - muslim or non-muslim who is in seach of the true to purchase this book. It is a must have.
A Ex-Muslim
Haroon Rasheed,
Kashmir, India.
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| digitul punk |
First off before I even get into a DISCUSSION with you I suggest you calm yourself down. Calling me an idiot is not going to prove anything, you are in no way gonna prove me that my religion is wrong so.. I suggest you. Now..
Islam is a religion of peace. Alot of his arguments donot have any backings to them. He said he was a muslim and yet he does not know that the QURAN was compiled by a group of a certain number of people and was done during the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him. Jihad is to die in the way of god correct. If you die in a battlefield you are entered into heaven no questions asked also coreect. But Jihad is not killing people with bombs.. hating on people of other faiths. He said he was a muslim .. I call that bull.. because according to Muslim theologies (which he should know) the Prophet migrated to Medina (and Medina was a christian city at that point) and lived peacefully amongst christians and jews for 25 some ought years. UMMMMMMMM duhhhhh.. does that ring a bell.. Now isn't that social cooperation?? That alone is an example of Live and LET LIVE. The Quran in no way promotes violence. I'm not gonna bother with replying to the rest of his so called "facts" because a Muslim, EX-Muslim, Infornmed christian is gonna call all of these "SATANIC VERSES" bull! Give me a credible source and I'll let you know what's up.
The Quran cannot be deduced word for word.. I think HE out of all people should know that.. there's always a backstory.. so if your local news-station translates a part of the Quran and makes you believe that Islam is all about terrorism then well go ahead and think what you want. I'm a muslim and a shia muslim at that and quite frankly if I was given the chance to shoot Osama's bitchass I would because he's a . Then again I don't think the american government is so innocent after all. So no one's right or wrong here. It's all a matter of cause and effect.
As far as modifying a religious text goes you can't just CLAIM that your oh so precious bible is unaltered.. same way you can't say that the Quran is somehow altered.. Even if it were .. Muslim scholars would have found out because we have so much cross refrence materials like the Hadith to figure that out and especially for shia scholars because we have the sayings and teachings of 12 IMAMs (leaders from Muhammad's family and not prophets in any sense of the word). This Haroon Rashid guy you are refering to has no clue what he's talking about and it's obviously seen by his arguments and I won't even bother touching them and notice that he cannot find the sources for his statements. A mark of lier right there. And yes islam and Christianity are very different but then again very very similar. Did you know muslims are allowed to marry Jews and Christians?? I guess not. That kinda throws the argument of killing jews and christians outta the window now doesn't it?
God does want to be feared no doubt because ultimately if you do not have a fear of an ultimate being I don't think you would think really really straight religiously speaking. It's just like a kid whose by himself at a house, he knows his parents are outta town but he won't go into his parent's closet because he's gonna get spankings if they find out. Take that ananlogy and apply it here.
As far as the Islamic countries go there are Christians in Pakistan that I personally know and are very very prosperous financially and socially and please I'm Pakistani by origin so donot even try to argue with me on that. I've lived in an arab country all my life and have seen people from all races and religions living tolerently. It's just like sayin that the middle east is made of sand castles and there's nothin but a desert there. And honeslty if you think so then I believe there is going to be no point in talking to you.
I am not in any way personally attacking you or your beliefs but I'm just clearing up some confusions that biased s cause.
Oh and btw Catch21 trying to prove that the bible is wrong/misinterpreted/fake/blah blah is not going to prove anything. I suggest you stop trying to attack other religions.. It's one thing to discuss religious matters and another to start up a flame war by posting links like that. |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by digitul punk
Did you know muslims are allowed to marry Jews and Christians?? I guess not. That kinda throws the argument of killing jews and christians outta the window now doesn't it?
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It does not prove . I don't care what Q'uaran, Bible, or Torah says - I care about how people interpret it. Holly Books DON'T KILL PEOPLE. People KILLL People! It's the idiots with a 15th century mentality that worry me.
You can take all the rationalization but what it all comes down to is this: few bad apples DO up for the rest of the good apples. I don't care how many millions upon millions decent muslims are out there - I care about the few thousand crazies that are really fanatical and determined to up. The fact that they happen to be Muslims and justify their cause by hiding behind Q'uaran - has only shames your religion. Just as it would shame Judaism or Chistianity or Budism or any other ISM - were it to be used as a premise and excuse for murder.
KILLING PEOPLE IS ED UP - REGARDLES IF YOU'RE MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN, JEW, AMERICAN OR SCIENTOLOGIST. Mmmmmmokay???? |
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