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Teaching Holocaust Denial in School? (pg. 2)
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
theories cannot contain evidence? :wtf: |
not the point, if something a theory its obviously not a fact. but you prolly believe in ID since you're from the south :p |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
false? really? so a theory proves things? ;)
now let's get back to ID? can you prove it? N00O0O0? can you REALLY prove evolution? If so it'd be a FACT, not an evolution theory ;)
oh and when you can explain ID to me using the scientific method or any hard effects then i'll take it seriously :D |
Um, a theory can be proven, like the theory of gravity or the theory of relativity for example. What is sometimes open for debate, however, are the processes behind the theory. |
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| Lepanto |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Um, a theory can be proven, like the theory of gravity or the theory of relativity for example. What is sometimes open for debate, however, are the processes behind the theory. |
so what would you call evolution or ID? |
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| NebulousQ |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Um, a theory can be proven, like the theory of gravity or the theory of relativity for example. |
Lol. Funny that you should choose those two for your post. Since scientists are baffled about the nature of both. We know how they work, but we don't really know why. |
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| NebulousQ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
the reason i can't prove ID or bring evidence/facts to support it... is because it is NOT a scientific theory. |
Really? So I guess you cannot prove President Lincoln existed because no one has made a scientific theory that he did.
Just because something is not a scientific theory, doesn't mean you can't bring evidence or facts to prove/disprove or support it.
Science has trouble when dealing with the past or the future since a major proponent of the scientific method is repitition. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by NebulousQ
Really? So I guess you cannot prove President Lincoln existed because no one has made a scientific theory that he did. |
But there are plenty of other facts and evidence that he did exist. For ID there is none.
| quote: | | Science has trouble when dealing with the past or the future since a major proponent of the scientific method is repitition. |
Much of evolution can be proved by repition in labs though. |
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| NebulousQ |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
But there are plenty of other facts and evidence that he did exist. For ID there is none. |
That may be true, but that wasn't my point. My point is that "scientific theory" has its place and just becuase something is not "scientific", such as history, does not mean you disregard it.
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Much of evolution can be proved by repition in labs though. |
Um what? |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by NebulousQ
Um what? |
Natural selection for exmample by trying who survives what and what genes lives on etc. |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by NebulousQ
That may be true, but that wasn't my point. My point is that "scientific theory" has its place and just becuase something is not "scientific", such as history, does not mean you disregard it. |
who said history isn't "scientific"?
| quote: | sci·ence Audio pronunciation of "science" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.
1.
1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
2. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
3. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience. |
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| NebulousQ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
who said history isn't "scientific"? |
| quote: | sci·ence Audio pronunciation of "science" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.
1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
2. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
3. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
4. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
5. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
6. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience. |
Where did you get this definition( On closer observation it seems you got them from different sources)? (I have renumbered the definitions for my purposes) I really don't agree with definitions 4-6 and am iffy on 2-3. Definition 1 seems to be the closest to "science", to me at least.
"History" is not "science". That is obvious enough, don't they teach you anything in school. I really don't know how to explain it anymore. It is difficult to apply the scientific method to review the veracity of "phenomena" that happened in the past. This is one reason that for a long time geology was not considered a "true" science.
I cannot scientifically prove that President Lincoln existed. I cannot go back in time and review his life, over and over, taking notes. I cannot recreate him again and again in a lab. I cannot run him through a series of tests to determine wheter or not he was ever there.
I can however check different historical documents, again and again, cross checking their validity with other documents and sources. Visit historical sites and obtian whatever information from them that I could. Etc. Etc. However most of the research and information I would get would come from other's observations and expieriences that have been recorded.
This is decidely unscientific. If anyone was to write a paper/make a discovery/do anything with no personal experimentation and everything was based off of other scientist's sources --
WAIT A FREAKING SECOND!
Why am I explaining myself?? If history was freaking science why isn't in a college's SCIENCE Department? Why is it the Language Arts or History Department?? Hmmmm?
Scientific means "has to do with science", history has to do with HISTORY.
What sort of crap definitions have you given me here: "I've got packing a suitcase down to a science."
O
M
G
What dictionary decided to use a slang term as a technical definition of science? And if it didnt WHY THE HECK did you bring it up?
Man.... Forget this I'm going to go eat lunch. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
so what would you call evolution or ID? |
Evolution - a valid theory
ID - bunch of distorted information grouped to suit a specific agenda. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by NebulousQ
Lol. Funny that you should choose those two for your post. Since scientists are baffled about the nature of both. We know how they work, but we don't really know why. |
Hence my second sentence which you conviniently took out of the quote.
As for your comment on history and science, valid history does use scientific methodology to confirm or deny historical facts. After all, even if you were there to see Lincoln live, I fail to see how that would be an absolute 100% proof of his actual existance. |
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