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curfew for teens < 16 ?
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| MarkT |
I think this is a ridiculous idea...apparently some city coucillors, such as Frances Nunziata and Giorgio Mammoliti, among others, disagree. IMHO, this is a reactionary, illogical response to the 12 yr. old girl being stabbed this week.
This isn't about teens being out after dark and being lured into a life of "drugs, prostitution..." etc., but rather that irresponsible parents aren't involved in their kids' lives. But ok, keep kids at home...that will solve everything, lol :rolleyes:
In addition to the article below, there was a story on either CBC Newsworld or CP24 this morning where Nunziata proposed a 10:30pm curfew...um...so no jobs that keep you out past then? no going to an evening movie with friends? no attending a sporting event with friends? We should piss away thin police resources rounding up responsible teens after 10:30pm simply because of a few rotten apples? This is beyond stupid and just punishes the vast majority of teens who ARE responsible.
, some teens speed...maybe no teens should be allowed to drive at all and then we won't have any teens speeding? flawed logic.
source: http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_.../city/city.html
| quote: | CITY HALL -- "I had a curfew until the day I was married," says Councillor Frances Nunziata. "I still have a curfew."
This glimpse into the personal life of one of Toronto's most prominent politicians comes as she explains why it's hard for her to understand all the fuss over possibly implementing a curfew bylaw for teens in Toronto.
It's late in the afternoon at City Hall on Oct. 26 and debate has moved from tax increases, homelessness and bottled water to the safety of our city's streets and an apparent decline in responsible parenting. It's time for the city to step in, says Giorgio Mammoliti. He has proposed the city conduct a study into the value of implementing a curfew for teens 16 and younger. Though the hours he thinks the curfew should be in force are unclear, he speaks with increasing urgency of the problems he believes a curfew could help solve: increases in gun-related crime, teens falling into lives of drug use and prostitution and the overall safety of our streets.
Janet Davis argues that a curfew is unenforceable, ineffective and a waste of police resources. "Curfews discriminate against kids who are good [because of] the behaviour of a few," Davis says to the applause and cheers of a group of five teenage girls sitting in the gallery.
Other councillors also question the logic of the idea. "How would police identify someone under 16?" Howard Moscoe asks, given that individuals have no obligation to identify themselves to police, unless they are being charged with a crime.
Pam McConnell raises another important fact that has been overlooked. "There is already a curfew in place. We already have legislation covering the matter," she says referring to a provincial law in the Child and Family Services Act.
One would think the debate would end there, but a frustrated Mammoliti launches into a rebuttal. "The city is being perceived as sitting on its hands when it comes to dealing with crime. If you squash this concept, it sends the message that you really don't care."
"There is a lack of parenting going on in the city of Toronto," Mammoliti proclaims. Mike Del Grande implies that part of the problem is that kids have the upper hand -- they can threaten to call the authorities if their parents try to discipline them. "The [curfew] law would work in the parent's favour," Del Grande says -- if children refuse to stay at home, parents could threaten to call the police.
Alas, parents will go without the child-rearing assistance of council. After over two hours of debate, Mammoliti's proposal to study the merits of imposing a curfew was defeated 30-10. DALE DUNCAN |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I think this is a ridiculous idea...apparently some city coucillors, such as Frances Nunziata and Giorgio Mammoliti, among others, disagree. |
Why am i not surprised that these bright lights are behind this? Two examples of councillors that need to go in the next election. Ive had enough of mammioliti and his blatant ignorance. Who the hell votes for this idiot anyways? seriously?
Kids need to learn their rights and have the balls to stand up for them. Actually most adults need to do this as well.
| quote: | | "How would police identify someone under 16?" Howard Moscoe asks, given that individuals have no obligation to identify themselves to police, unless they are being charged with a crime. |
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| El Kay Dee |
| DJ Kurfew is NOT for teens...hes R-rated |
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| MarkT |
let's shut down clubs too.
if there are no after hours clubs, no one will die from e
:rolleyes: :stongue: |
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| Flec |
i thought the law was that your parents are responsible for being with you if you are out late, and if they are not with you they can be charged/fined. also even all ages clubs have a 16+ age right? because thats when ur allowed to be out late by urself
thats what ive always thought were the rules.... i guess i was wrong |
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| Refinnej |
More info...
A youth curfew, similar to the one being proposed by Toronto councillor Frances Nunziata after a 12-year-old was stabbed while out late partying this past weekend, has been in effect in New Brunswick for five years.
More than a dozen communities in that province introduced juvenile curfew bylaws in 2001 as a tool to help police get kids who might otherwise be vandalizing or getting in fights off the streets.
Terry LeBlanc, a solicitor who deals with bylaws in one of the curfew-affected cities – Moncton – says since the rules came in five years ago they’ve never seen a problem where kids refused to abide by the restriction.
"I’m not aware of any incidents where kids have refused to move along," he says. "If something like that were to happen it wouldn’t be the child that would be charged it would be the parent charged under the provincial Family Services Act. But we’ve never, to my knowledge and I’ve been here 14 years, had a parent charged under that."
Moncton’s curfew bars youths under the age of 16 from being out alone past 10pm, or in the summer months of July and August 11pm. LeBlanc admits that though there have been isolated incidents involving unruly kids in the past, it hasn’t been a significant problem either in his town or across the province.
But should one occur, there are potentially serious ramifications for the parents.
"Basically what happens is if a child refuses to leave, he or she can be treated as a child in need of protection under the Act," LeBlanc says. "The police could notify the minister responsible for child welfare and technically the minister could take the child under protection and place him or her in a foster home."
Not everyone is in favour of the idea of youth curfews, arguing it violates the Charter of Rights in respect to discrimination on the basis of age, and the solicitor says there are potential legal challenges to the validity of the bylaw.
However, he describes reaction to the bylaw when it was brought in in Moncton as "non-existent," from both the teens affected and their parents.
He adds that one of the significant challenges to bringing such a bylaw to a city like Toronto is ensuring the community is involved in getting young people off the streets late at night.
"There has to be an education program with all of this not just for the parents but for the people who are complaining," he says. "You just can’t complain (about kids being out), you have to step up and report it. Sometimes it’s difficult to get members of the community involved in the enforcement process but without their involvement you can’t enforce anything."
Nunziata reportedly plans to re-introduce the motion relating to a possible Toronto curfew in city council this spring.
Source: http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Sto...28-014/page.asp
I live in Moncton and wasn't even aware of this curfew :crazy: This curfew has not cut down on teen prostitution and drugs in the city.. that's for sure.
As mentioned above, I also thought it was the parents responsibility to know the whereabouts of their teen. :conf: |
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| vendetta999 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Why am i not surprised that these bright lights are behind this? Two examples of councillors that need to go in the next election. Ive had enough of mammioliti and his blatant ignorance. Who the hell votes for this idiot anyways? seriously?
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my sentiments exactly. Nunziata's a ing moron to put it lightly. |
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| MarkT |
another issue is that the police do not have a right to stop, question or otherwise detain anyone who's out in public unless they have just cause to believe you're in possession of drugs or weapons, or have committed a crime, AFAIK.
so...how will they determine someone's age if the average person doesn't even have to stop and identify themselves to police when out in public? Because someone "looks 16 or under" would hardly stand up as just cause in court, I would think? |
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| cyper |
| Thats like trying to stop plane crashes by getting rid of planes. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
another issue is that the police do not have a right to stop, question or otherwise detain anyone who's out in public unless they have just cause to believe you're in possession of drugs or weapons, or have committed a crime, AFAIK.
so...how will they determine someone's age if the average person doesn't even have to stop and identify themselves to police when out in public? Because someone "looks 16 or under" would hardly stand up as just cause in court, I would think? |
because most people have no idea what their rights are. Whether its involving police, employers or landlords. All three rely on ignorance or fear to get away with what they get away with. |
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| Tiesto4Life |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
let's shut down clubs too.
if there are no after hours clubs, no one will die from e
:rolleyes: :stongue: |
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
oh man! brilliant! |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cyper
Thats like trying to stop plane crashes by getting rid of planes. |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
let's shut down clubs too.
if there are no after hours clubs, no one will die from e
:rolleyes: :stongue: |
EXACTLY why i am against most laws like this. Such as last call, the pit bull ban, the junk food ban in schools, no smoking, etc etc. Social engineering DOES NOT work. And if it even has a slightly moderate effect, it usually creates more problems than it solves.
Banning smoking in clubs will not stop people from smoking. Banning pitbulls will not stop dog bites. Banning junk food in schools will not promote healthy eating. Last call will not reduce drinking, Shutting clubs will not stop drugs or fights, banning kids from being outdoors after dark will not magically solve crime.
ANY law of convenience is unjust and should not even be considered. Sadly as it goes in ontario, everyone is always supportive of a ban unless it actually has negative effects for themselves personally. Then suddenly they think the ban is ridiculous. And therein lies the crutch of today's society. |
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