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Getting away from "formulaic" trance
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| Zoso |
At the risk of beating a dead horse in yet another thread, I will take a chance because I respect the thoughts I get here at TA. I enjoy mixing melodic and uplifting trance, but it is difficult not to notice the "formula" involved in the vast majority of the tracks: intro, melody/build, breakdown, melody/build, mild breakdown, outro.
Now, for some tracks this is fine because the build up is a great, catchy melody and the breakdowns are truly spine tingling, hands-in-the-air music. However, track after track after track of this style or formula seems to grow tiresome. I could see how it would be especially tiresome for the audience listening. The DJ might notice is less, as he or she is focusing on the technical aspects at the time.
I love those all too rare moments where a tune just completely kicks your ass and then mixes into the next tune so seamlessly that you never noticed the transition!
With these things in mind, what are some genres or subgenres I should explore to get away from the formula-type anthem trance? Who are some DJs and producers that I should investigate? What labels produce quality trance that isn't stuck in the formula rut? Thanks for your input as always, TAs. |
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| Spirit5 |
Simple solution. Don't play all uplifting stuff with the same formula, go into other EDM genres, look into house and progressive and even explore some psy (even though i'm not a big fan). Not all trance even has this formula. Some DJs play A LOT of it, believe me, but even the big guys like Tiesto, Armin, Ferry Corsten, Oakenfold etc, they don't just play anthem after anthem like some of them used to do more. I think some people are just making a bigger deal out of this then what it really is, and i'm tired of these threads but I still participate. It's good to mix it up. I agree breakdowns and all get formulaic, but I wouldn't blame the breakdowns entirely, you can find plenty of those in other EDM genres too. Just some trance breakdowns sound so generic, so tiresome, with the same old trance riffs..they get boring.
A producer that uses breakdowns but does not abuse them is Micro de Govia, his breakdowns are great. We shouldn't eliminate the breakdowns entirely. If you want tunes without breakdowns, ask "Rebel9", he seems to be an expert in psy trance or the older hypnotic stuff. But to me, like i've said, it's not the breakdowns themselves I feel that are killing trance, it's that 1.) they are over used 2.) they sound predictable and formulaic and 3.) they are almost being used as a cheap way to make a transition in a track, they are too overblown and theatrical. A slow, gradual breakdown like MdG tends to make, those are what should be used...and are used in some of the more progressive, deeper melodic stuff. |
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| Zoso |
| Exactly! Slow, gradual breakdowns that sneak up on you. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for the insight, Spirit5. Time now for a 2hr phone seminar. I'll definitely check back in and hope Rebel9 has replied. :) |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zoso
Exactly! Slow, gradual breakdowns that sneak up on you. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for the insight, Spirit5. Time now for a 2hr phone seminar. I'll definitely check back in and hope Rebel9 has replied. :) |
Yeah thats what I feel there should be, and what I look for, without the super saw "trance" riff that has been prevalent in this music since the late 90s. I think cool, chilled breakdown that uses pianos, guitars, even native flutes or just really I guess...unique sounding synths would be cool. Check out "Kalafut & Fygle" too, they use some really nice breakdowns. Haven't released much stuff yet, but you might like "Lullaby", "Astra" or "3579 KM", good stuff that works with progressive sets. I wouldn't make a set of all of their stuff but I think adding a few tracks in a set with breakdowns is good, adds some suspense and beauty to a set that could just be monotonous with no "emotion" which I think is important in making a set or track "human" and not just some mechanistic, pulsating beat. Yeah Rebel9 is the expert, not me, but I like defending the "good breakdown" IMO, because it's what i've enjoyed about this music since I got into it. I just don't like the overly theatrical stuff that I used to... |
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| RebeL9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zoso
At the risk of beating a dead horse in yet another thread, I will take a chance because I respect the thoughts I get here at TA. I enjoy mixing melodic and uplifting trance, but it is difficult not to notice the "formula" involved in the vast majority of the tracks: intro, melody/build, breakdown, melody/build, mild breakdown, outro.
Now, for some tracks this is fine because the build up is a great, catchy melody and the breakdowns are truly spine tingling, hands-in-the-air music. However, track after track after track of this style or formula seems to grow tiresome. I could see how it would be especially tiresome for the audience listening. The DJ might notice is less, as he or she is focusing on the technical aspects at the time.
I love those all too rare moments where a tune just completely kicks your ass and then mixes into the next tune so seamlessly that you never noticed the transition!
With these things in mind, what are some genres or subgenres I should explore to get away from the formula-type anthem trance? Who are some DJs and producers that I should investigate? What labels produce quality trance that isn't stuck in the formula rut? Thanks for your input as always, TAs. |
thats why I recommend you to download this set. |
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| zoric |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
A producer that uses breakdowns but does not abuse them is Micro de Govia, his breakdowns are great. |
Mirco de Govia is one of my favourite producers out there and his productions is amazing. He's got a amazing sound.
You should check out that set to, It's amazing. |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by zoric
Mirco de Govia is one of my favourite producers out there and his productions is amazing. He's got a amazing sound.
You should check out that set to, It's amazing. |
I listened to the set Rebel9 is having us download. It is just too monotonous. It doesn't have much emotion, there's hardly any noticeable melody. It is danceable, but not anything you can listen to and dance to, and to me, thats an important quality with music. It's like jazz music was, it was used for dancing, and also for listening to as well, and the same goes for classical music, which was used for dancing as well, with minuets and such. Thats the way I view some EDM too. But there's also some EDM that is just purely made for dancing, and this is that kind of set, but I don't care about the individual tracks or the way they make me feel, because they only make me feel like dancing, they don't strike me with any emotion or a really aural, euphoric experience that other EDM does...like melodic trance. All of the tracks sound the same to me in that set, there's not a whole lot of variety. Maybe some slight changes, some tunes that sound a little more melodic or a little more uplifting then others, but nothing that stands out...listen to some of the tracks if you can in my sig, those are what I am into, you can listen to them and dance to them... |
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| Ian |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
I listened to the set Rebel9 is having us download. It is just too monotonous. It doesn't have much emotion, there's hardly any noticeable melody. It is danceable, but not anything you can listen to and dance to, and to me, thats an important quality with music. |
It's not monotonous, it builds, how trance should, you can't tell many transitions because they're not made to be a big part of the set, it just flows, and there are many melodies, nothing too over the top, and maybe that's what you're looking for, but this is more like the trance of old than anything else about today. |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian
It's not monotonous, it builds, how trance should, you can't tell many transitions because they're not made to be a big part of the set, it just flows, and there are many melodies, nothing too over the top, and maybe that's what you're looking for, but this is more like the trance of old than anything else about today. |
Well to me it's monotonous, it all sounds the same, the same old BOOM BOOM BOOM banging bass and some effects. I don't hear noticeable melodies, and maybe thats what I like. I like noticeable melodies because I can think of the songs in my head, I can identify them and know that they are changing. It's like at a rock concert, you know the songs the band is playing. I am into the whole "journey" idea and letting things flow, but i'm more into "telling stories" through various moods in the tracks, through melodies, like a singer-songwriter without any lyrics or vocals. Thats how I view the music I like, there's not much of a story to this stuff IMO, it's just this heavy bass...heavy beat..really full on..dance stuff.. that just doesn't appeal to me. Maybe this is what trance WAS back in the day, but this was what I did not like, and why I was drawn to the melodic stuff because it wasn't so monotonous, I could actually get the songs stuck in my head and hum a long and enjoy chillin to them. I know that sounds crazy, but I wasn't and am not a raver, I am not much of a clubber either. I just like melodic music period, and that includes melodic EDM, especially trance. |
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| RebeL9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
I listened to the set Rebel9 is having us download. It is just too monotonous. It doesn't have much emotion, there's hardly any noticeable melody. It is danceable, but not anything you can listen to and dance to, and to me, thats an important quality with music. It's like jazz music was, it was used for dancing, and also for listening to as well, and the same goes for classical music, which was used for dancing as well, with minuets and such. Thats the way I view some EDM too. But there's also some EDM that is just purely made for dancing, and this is that kind of set, but I don't care about the individual tracks or the way they make me feel, because they only make me feel like dancing, they don't strike me with any emotion or a really aural, euphoric experience that other EDM does...like melodic trance. All of the tracks sound the same to me in that set, there's not a whole lot of variety. Maybe some slight changes, some tunes that sound a little more melodic or a little more uplifting then others, but nothing that stands out...listen to some of the tracks if you can in my sig, those are what I am into, you can listen to them and dance to them... |
its funny since that is the stuff I would like to dance to 10 times more than the stuff played by Armin and Tiesto. I've been to those kind of parties and the DJ plays one big anthem and suddenly it all stops for 2-3 mins and people are standing there waving there arms and then it goes back and then when the next tunes comes in there is another 3 min break and ppl stand there and wave again. there was no flow to the music at all. i realized that this kind of music is the one i could listen to at home but definetly not at the club.
I like when there is a constant flow to a set. No big breaks, driving basslines but with small melodic sweeps in the background (such as the first track in the Nasa set).
And the best is when you dont recognice a single tune in a set because you get excited and think "wow what are all these great tunes?" instead of when the big djs play all their famous tunes you are like "ok here goes Adagio for strings..... ok time for Shivers.... ok time for blabla". Sure its cool to hear a tune you recognice once in a while but not every damn other tune. |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by RebeL9
its funny since that is the stuff I would like to dance to 10 times more than the stuff played by Armin and Tiesto. I've been to those kind of parties and the DJ plays one big anthem and suddenly it all stops for 2-3 mins and people are standing there waving there arms and then it goes back and then when the next tunes comes in there is another 3 min break and ppl stand there and wave again. there was no flow to the music at all. i realized that this kind of music is the one i could listen to at home but definetly not at the club.
I like when there is a constant flow to a set. No big breaks, driving basslines but with small melodic sweeps in the background (such as the first track in the Nasa set).
And the best is when you dont recognice a single tune in a set because you get excited and think "wow what are all these great tunes?" instead of when the big djs play all their famous tunes you are like "ok here goes Adagio for strings..... ok time for Shivers.... ok time for blabla". Sure its cool to hear a tune you recognice once in a while but not every damn other tune. |
I agree with what your saying though. I mean i'de almost rather dance to stuff that just flows, doesn't break. But that's another idea all together. That's "dance music" in it's purest form. I think it's cool when there are stuff that I don't know. Heck when I saw Armin the first time, I didn't know some of the tracks he played. Then I searched around and found some samples online of some of the tunes he was playing at the time, and discovered them. It felt good, then when I got the vinyls and was reliving that night I saw him, shortly after I turned 18 in 2003. There's two different ideas that I did discuss. There's the idea that you can go to a place, no care so much about the tunes playing individually, but just go to have a good time and dance your ass off to music like this. Then there's the time when you go to a club with a big DJ and you know there's going to be a few tunes that you recognize in their set and when you hear them, you feel really good because your experiencing this tune with others and dancing to it and it's like this big story within a larger story.
I guess when I do mix, even though i'm trying to get better at it, is to "tell a story" through the individual tracks, which make up one big story, like a play within a play. With this stuff, it's like one continous story with some subtle variations in the plot, but it's not like "many worlds" within one world, it's like one world, with variations of the same world within it. Kind of a weird analogy but the best way to explain my thinking....i'm not bashing this set, just saying, it's not my cup of tea and definitely not what attracted me to trance, it's what I was trying to get away from and find an alternative to...the highly repetitive stuff. I actually thought this stuff was trance and I thought it was "trance" that I couldn't stand back around 1998, until I heard Oakenfold's "Tranceport" and tunes from PvD and BT, and I thought "trance isn't what I thought it was, it really is melodic and euphoric and not super monotonous". That whole idea has stuck ever since, and I don't see myself being on of these guys who will get back into trance but into this psy stuff. Right now I prefer deeper, more progressive stuff, but with melodies and a trance-like feel...like the stuff in my sig.
Here's the breakdown:
The stuff like in this set of yours that your sharing with us, I see that as stuff you can dance to at a club or event, but I don't see how you can enjoy listening to it at home. Then there's stuff that I'm more into, the more melodic stuff, that I see as stuff you can either dance to or just sit back and enjoy listening to it at home, because it is identifiable, it's not just this continous, relentless beat. I dunno how people can sit back and listen to this stuff like in this set, unless say your driving and your using it as more "background music" then anything else. But definitely not active, enjoyable.. listening music... |
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| RebeL9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
I agree with what your saying though. I mean i'de almost rather dance to stuff that just flows, doesn't break. But that's another idea all together. That's "dance music" in it's purest form. I think it's cool when there are stuff that I don't know. Heck when I saw Armin the first time, I didn't know some of the tracks he played. Then I searched around and found some samples online of some of the tunes he was playing at the time, and discovered them. It felt good, then when I got the vinyls and was reliving that night I saw him, shortly after I turned 18 in 2003. There's two different ideas that I did discuss. There's the idea that you can go to a place, no care so much about the tunes playing individually, but just go to have a good time and dance your ass off to music like this. Then there's the time when you go to a club with a big DJ and you know there's going to be a few tunes that you recognize in their set and when you hear them, you feel really good because your experiencing this tune with others and dancing to it and it's like this big story within a larger story.
I guess when I do mix, even though i'm trying to get better at it, is to "tell a story" through the individual tracks, which make up one big story, like a play within a play. With this stuff, it's like one continous story with some subtle variations in the plot, but it's not like "many worlds" within one world, it's like one world, with variations of the same old within it. Kind of a weird analogy but the best way to explain my thinking....i'm not bashing this set, just saying, it's not my cup of tea and definitely not what attracted me to trance, it's what I was trying to get away from and find an alternative to...the highly repetitive stuff. I actually thought this stuff was trance and I thought it was "trance" that I couldn't stand back around 1998, until I heard Oakenfold's "Tranceport" and tunes from PvD and BT, and I thought "trance isn't what I thought it was, it really is melodic and euphoric and not super monotonous". That whole idea has stuck ever since, and I don't see myself being on of these guys who will get back into trance but into this psy stuff. Right now I prefer deeper, more progressive stuff, but with melodies and a trance-like feel...like the stuff in my sig. |
you can't say that the tune around 06:00 isn't melodic, neither the one around 42, 53 and 73. these are IMO very melodic tunes. the way i like them, driving and melodic without any supersaws.
and for your information this is some of the more accessible within progpsy. if you listen to the normal psy you would be scared, that is much more twisted and freaky =)
but then again I understand your taste. you prefer it more anthemic. thats cool. I like anthemic tunes as well. just that I dont think there are many good made nowadays. but i have loads of good in my record boxes. |
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