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North Korea: UN Sanctions amount to declaration of war!! (pg. 6)
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Purple
lol
There was this news today that NK has apologised for testing nukes and regrets it.:wtf:
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Yea, sure they're sorry. :rolleyes:
Just like went they got caught developing arms even after signing a treaty with all of Clinton's dealings saying they weren't going to.
The missiles aren't the issue; it's the nuclear device.
They have LOTS of options to detonate one overseas if they wished; including selling them on the black market.
THAT'S what scares the hell out of me. :nervous: |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Yea, sure they're sorry. :rolleyes:
Just like went they got caught developing arms even after signing a treaty with all of Clinton's dealings saying they weren't going to.
The missiles aren't the issue; it's the nuclear device.
They have LOTS of options to detonate one overseas if they wished; including selling them on the black market.
THAT'S what scares the hell out of me. :nervous: |
Actually, I listened to some political analysts today on this Russian journalist website, and it turns out there's a good reason why NK developed those terrible weapons.
NK signed an agreement a few years back not to deveop nukes in return for nuclear arms reductions by armed nations and FOR GUARANTEEING the safety and independence of NK in returm because NK wouldn't be able to adequatly protect itself. But then USA turns around, attacks and invades the same countries that signed that treaty (Iraq, Afghanistan). So that made NK wonder - hmmmmmm, what if we are next?
Pretty simple to follow. You cant blame NK much, they're doing what any other country would do in their position - protect themselves from an invasion. But now I hope China will taking a role of their defender in return for giving up nuclear weapons development. |
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| LatinLover |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Actually, I listened to some political analysts today on this Russian journalist website, and it turns out there's a good reason why NK developed those terrible weapons.
NK signed an agreement a few years back not to deveop nukes in return for nuclear arms reductions by armed nations and FOR GUARANTEEING the safety and independence of NK in returm because NK wouldn't be able to adequatly protect itself. But then USA turns around, attacks and invades the same countries that signed that treaty (Iraq, Afghanistan). So that made NK wonder - hmmmmmm, what if we are next?
Pretty simple to follow. You cant blame NK much, they're doing what any other country would do in their position - protect themselves from an invasion. But now I hope China will taking a role of their defender in return for giving up nuclear weapons development. |
Okay dude, we Invaded Afghanistan, because they were is affiliationg with Usama Bin Laden, Afghanistan served as a save haven for Al Qaeda, so your telling me instead invading Afghanistan we should have instead sat down with the Taliban and negotiate? :rolleyes:
Iraq is still a debatable, but why NK would think the US will invade them. Whats happening in the ME is a whole diff story from NK :rolleyes: Oh and Im sure that Kim Jong also had that mentality during the Clinton admin, that the US was going to invade them. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
Okay dude, we Invaded Afghanistan, because they were is affiliationg with Usama Bin Laden, Afghanistan served as a save haven for Al Qaeda, so your telling me instead invading Afghanistan we should have instead sat down with the Taliban and negotiate? :rolleyes:
Iraq is still a debatable, but why NK would think the US will invade them. Whats happening in the ME is a whole diff story from NK :rolleyes: Oh and Im sure that Kim Jong also had that mentality during the Clinton admin, that the US was going to invade them. |
Well, Osama Bin Laden is no longer in Afghanistan. But the Americans are, so the country is under occupation. Dont forget that Karzai is American-born trained and funded.
Oh, and there is no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. CIA themselves released a memo saying that Hussein himself considered Bin Laden and Al Qaeda as danger to his rule. It was Rumsfeld and neo-cons that lied to the people about the 9/11 connection, about weapons of mass destruction, about Al Qaeda in Iraq in reason to invade the country and secure the oil fields. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Actually, I listened to some political analysts today on this Russian journalist website, and it turns out there's a good reason why NK developed those terrible weapons.
NK signed an agreement a few years back not to deveop nukes in return for nuclear arms reductions by armed nations and FOR GUARANTEEING the safety and independence of NK in returm because NK wouldn't be able to adequatly protect itself. But then USA turns around, attacks and invades the same countries that signed that treaty (Iraq, Afghanistan). So that made NK wonder - hmmmmmm, what if we are next?
Pretty simple to follow. You cant blame NK much, they're doing what any other country would do in their position - protect themselves from an invasion. But now I hope China will taking a role of their defender in return for giving up nuclear weapons development. |
So he nix everything because he's paranoid?
That's a hell of a way to run a country, especially at the expense of his own people.
Him an Chavez should get together sometime and swap shadowy figure stories...:rolleyes:
If you can explain why someone would WANT to invade NK then maybe you'd have an argument but there is none.
He's preparing for something that would and will never happen.
If anything, NK is perpetuating their own destiny and worse fears except now, they're pissing off EVERYONE in the process, including their own 'allies'.
They're digging own hole and now they have to sit in it; they have no one but themselves to blame. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So he nix everything because he's paranoid?
That's a hell of a way to run a country, especially at the expense of his own people.
Him an Chavez should get together sometime and swap shadowy figure stories...:rolleyes:
If you can explain why someone would WANT to invade NK then maybe you'd have an argument but there is none.
He's preparing for something that would and will never happen.
If anything, NK is perpetuating their own destiny and worse fears except now, they're pissing off EVERYONE in the process, including their own 'allies'.
They're digging own hole and now they have to sit in it; they have no one but themselves to blame. |
Are you saying that NK is developing the nukes to attack NK or Japan or USA? Thats proposterous ... NK knows well that this will result in a regional war which won't go well. That dictatorship just wanted to protect itself. Though the nuclear secrets might spread to other countries like Venezuela.
Surely they pisssing off their allies, because China doesnt feel secure anymore. NK coould care less because it doesnt trust that China will help NK in case of American agression.
Honestly, I think NK is all alone. China would easily give up NK to USA if USA gives up Taiwan to them. Thats a good deal for both, I suppose ;-)
Don't tell me that USA doesnt have any plans for future regime changes in NK. With or without using force, it is very likely. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
[COLOR=FF7F50]
Are you saying that NK is developing the nukes to attack NK or Japan or USA? Thats proposterous ... NK knows well that this will result in a regional war which won't go well. That dictatorship just wanted to protect itself. Though the nuclear secrets might spread to other countries like Venezuela.
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I never insinuated anything of the kind, where are you getting this from?? :conf:
| quote: |
Surely they pisssing off their allies, because China doesnt feel secure anymore. NK coould care less because it doesnt trust that China will help NK in case of American agression.
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The Americans really don't want anything to do with NK.
It's only because of NKs actions that they are forced to deal with them.
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Honestly, I think NK is all alone. China would easily give up NK to USA if USA gives up Taiwan to them. Thats a good deal for both, I suppose ;-)
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That's just a ludicrous suggestion...
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Don't tell me that USA doesnt have any plans for future regime changes in NK. With or without using force, it is very likely. |
Highly doubtful.
NK is too dug in and with China being right there, their only option is negotiation. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
The Americans really don't want anything to do with NK.
It's only because of NKs actions that they are forced to deal with them. |
and that is exactly why NK is in with their head,as long as the U.S. does the whole "we dont negotiate with our enemies" attitude,Nk will continue to push their buttons. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
and that is exactly why NK is in with their head,as long as the U.S. does the whole "we dont negotiate with our enemies" attitude,Nk will continue to push their buttons. |
Thats EXACTLY right. NK was FORCED to develop nuclear technology fearing USA will attack it next. American expansion around the world will only make the terrorists stronger.
Remember a few years back when NK had the inspectors and all in their country, and NK was all cooperating? Well, since Iraq and Afghanistan was invaded, NK kicked the inspectors out and quickly went into developing nukes.
"Americans dont want anything to do with NK". Yeah, like they didnt want anything to do with Iraq ... |
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
The excuse that the NK's had to develop nuclear weapons to defend themselves is ridiculous. We have a measely 17,000 troops stationed there. What are we going to invade with that?
check this..
| quote: | According to western estimates, North Korea has the fifth-largest military in the world [1], with the largest percentage of citizens enlisted (49.03 active troops per thousand citizens). The North has an estimated 1.08 million armed personnel, compared to about 686,000 South Korean troops, plus 17,000 US troops in South Korea. Military spending is estimated at 20%-25% of GNP, which would mean that the DPRK spends the largest proportion of its GNP on its military in the world. Roughly 20% of North Korean men between the ages of 17 and 54 serve in the regular armed forces. As a result, DPRK forces are thought to have a substantial numerical advantage over the South (as high as 3 to 1) in several key categories of offensive weapons like tanks, long-range artillery, and Armoured personnel carriers. However, despite this numerical superiority, much of North Korea's land arsenal is considerably inferior when compared with the South's more modern and capable weapons systems. The army remains largely an infantry force with (as of 1996) 3,800 tanks, mostly old-model Soviet tanks[2]. South Korea is also engaged in a military alliance with the United States for protection, with several units of the United States armed forces stationed in South Korea.
The North has perhaps the world's second-largest special operations force (55,000), designed for insertion behind enemy lines in wartime. While the North has a relatively impressive fleet of submarines (especially small submarines for infiltrating South Korean waters), its submarines are old Russian purchases such as Golf and Romeo class submarines, hardly comparable to modern submarines. Its surface fleet has a very limited capability. Its air force has twice the number of aircraft as the South, but except for a few advanced fighters (about 20 MiG-29s), the North's air force is obsolete. The North, like the South, deploys the bulk of its forces well forward, within 100 miles of the Korean DMZ, to include 700,000 troops, 8,000 artillery systems, and 2,000 tanks. Several North Korean military tunnels under the DMZ were discovered in the 1970's, including the famous Third Tunnel of Aggression.
North Korea is technically still at war with South Korea. In recent years, North Korea has sought to dismantle the MAC in a push for a new peace mechanism on the peninsula. In April 1994, it declared the MAC void and withdrew its representatives. Prior to this, it had effectively ended the functions of the NNSC.
Over the last several years, the North has allegedly moved more of its rear-echelon troops to hardened bunkers near the DMZ. Given the proximity of Seoul to the DMZ (some 25 miles), South Korean and United States forces are likely to have little warning of any attack. The United States and South Korea continue to state that the U.S. troop presence remains an effective deterrent. |
Source |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Thats EXACTLY right. NK was FORCED to develop nuclear technology fearing USA will attack it next. American expansion around the world will only make the terrorists stronger.
Remember a few years back when NK had the inspectors and all in their country, and NK was all cooperating? Well, since Iraq and Afghanistan was invaded, NK kicked the inspectors out and quickly went into developing nukes.
"Americans dont want anything to do with NK". Yeah, like they didnt want anything to do with Iraq ... |
I hate to tell you, but the US was not planning on going into NK anytime soon. Now, depending on the decisions of the UN, we might end up there. We know China would bail out NK just like they did in the 1950s and we definitely have no interest in fighting with China again.
On the plus side for NK, they can make this argument, and in doing so, potentially provoke an attack that would never have come without their nuclear development, then blame it on the US when it happens, saying they were right all along. It's that great victimization logic that's been working in the international community lately.
I understand why you think we would though, because you're paranoia is probably on the same level as Kim Jong Il's, as shown by all your CT arguments. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Thats EXACTLY right. NK was FORCED to develop nuclear technology fearing USA will attack it next. American expansion around the world will only make the terrorists stronger. |
Sorry, but that is a CROCK of . Your argument presumes that there is no other option but to go nuclear. The U.S. has said it doesn't want to attack the Norks, and even then, nobody FORCED anyone to do ANYTHING. Plenty of countries in the world "fear" the U.S. for whatever reason, but you don't see them with their backs pinned against the wall saying, "Oh, we simply MUST develop nuclear weapons because the U.S. is FORCING us to."
Nevermind that the Norks are so far in violation of an agreemnt that they signed in the 90's that they FORCED the U.S. to EXPOSE them for their shinanigans. |
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