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i forgive the terrorists (pg. 6)
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
America didn't get pissed off at the way our government handled national security until 9/11.
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Because Clinton (the coward) wasnt in office and Buch was - thank goodness. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
Because Clinton (the coward) wasnt in office and Buch was - thank goodness. |
youre an idiot. clinton did infinitely more to catch bin laden before 9/11 than bush did. bush did nothing on his watch. he was briefed by clinton, and given a dossier on bin laden & al qaeda and warned that bin laden was the biggest threat to US security. it took bush months and months to even get to that.
and, since 9/11, has bush got anywhere in his search for bin laden? nope. zero, zilch. got all. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
off he did nothing :rolleyes: the GOP used to mock him and accused him of being obsessed with bin laden. |
Is that a joke? |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
even if you were correct (which youre not) |
No explanation given as to why I'm wrong? Shame on you.
And Tiesto, just think, it's been 5 years since 9/11 and we haven't caught been laden. 2 more years (Which will be the end of Bush's term) and Bush will be in the same boat as Clinton. Bin Laden could very well be financing another attack on the United States, and since we didn't catch him, It will be Bush's fault for not capturing him. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
youre an idiot. clinton did infinitely more to catch bin laden before 9/11 than bush did. bush did nothing on his watch. he was briefed by clinton, and given a dossier on bin laden & al qaeda and warned that bin laden was the biggest threat to US security. it took bush months and months to even get to that.
and, since 9/11, has bush got anywhere in his search for bin laden? nope. zero, zilch. got all. |
How many attacks have happened under Bush's watch?
How many under Clinton's?
Clinton:
World Trade Center 1993
Khobar Towers
Embassy in Kenya
Embassy in Tanzania
Oklahoma City (evidence can suggest Yousef had a role in this)
USS Cole
Somalia
Shall i go on?
Also why is it after all those attacks Clinton told the Sudanese government that he did not want Bin Laden?
I guess Bush's critics are right. Every time the president receives unconfirmed, 3-year-old information, he should probably shut down the entire U.S. air system and start rounding up Arab men for questioning.
Most people all over this are talking out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand, they are bashing the president for his failure to do more. On the other hand, the sort of things that the president could have done to prevent this, are precisely the sorts of things that these selfsame critics oppose, on civil liberties grounds.
Many Americans seem to want it both ways. They want their privacy and don't want their government spying on them, but at the same time they seem to want a guarantee that something like 9/11 won't happen again. If the CIA and FBI don't share data and a terrorist attack occurs, then we'll throw a fit about how our government isn't doing enough to protect us. If they do share data and some innocent Arab professor ends up having a government file, however, we'll all complain about the invasion of privacy and the near-police state conditions we live under. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
Is that a joke? |
| quote: |
Measures taken by the Clinton administration to thwart international terrorism and bin Laden's network were historic, unprecedented and, sadly, not followed up on. Consider the steps offered by Clinton's 1996 omnibus anti-terror legislation, the pricetag for which stood at $1.097 billion. The following is a partial list of the initiatives offered by the Clinton anti-terrorism bill:
Screen Checked Baggage: $91.1 million
Screen Carry-On Baggage: $37.8 million
Passenger Profiling: $10 million
Screener Training: $5.3 million
Screen Passengers (portals) and Document Scanners: $1 million
Deploying Existing Technology to Inspect International Air Cargo: $31.4
million
Provide Additional Air/Counterterrorism Security: $26.6 million
Explosives Detection Training: $1.8 million
Augment FAA Security Research: $20 million
Customs Service: Explosives and Radiation Detection Equipment at Ports: $2.2 million
Anti-Terrorism Assistance to Foreign Governments: $2 million
Capacity to Collect and Assemble Explosives Data: $2.1 million
Improve Domestic Intelligence: $38.9 million
Critical Incident Response Teams for Post-Blast Deployment: $7.2 million
Additional Security for Federal Facilities: $6.7 million
Firefighter/Emergency Services Financial Assistance: $2.7 million
Public Building and Museum Security: $7.3 million
Improve Technology to Prevent Nuclear Smuggling: $8 million
Critical Incident Response Facility: $2 million
Counter-Terrorism Fund: $35 million
Explosives Intelligence and Support Systems: $14.2 million
Office of Emergency Preparedness: $5.8 million
The Clinton administration poured more than a billion dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community, into the protection of critical infrastructure, into massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack, into a reorganization of the intelligence community itself. Within the National Security Council, "threat meetings" were held three times a week to assess looming conspiracies. His National Security Advisor, Sandy Berger, prepared a voluminous dossier on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, actively tracking them across the planet. Clinton raised the issue of terrorism in virtually every important speech he gave in the last three years of his tenure.
Clinton's dire public warnings about the threat posed by terrorism, and the actions taken to thwart it, went completely unreported by the media, which was far more concerned with stained dresses and baseless Drudge Report rumors. When the administration did act militarily against bin Laden and his terrorist network, the actions were dismissed by partisans within the media and Congress as scandalous "wag the dog" tactics. The news networks actually broadcast clips of the movie "Wag the Dog" while reporting on his warnings, to accentuate the idea that everything the administration said was contrived fakery.
In Congress, Clinton was thwarted by the reactionary conservative majority in virtually every attempt he made to pass legislation that would attack al-Qaeda and terrorism. His 1996 omnibus terror bill, which included many of the anti-terror measures we now take for granted after September 11, was withered almost to the point of uselessness by attacks from the right; Senators Jesse Helms and Trent Lott were openly dismissive of the threats Clinton spoke of.
Specifically, Clinton wanted to attack the financial underpinnings of the al-Qaeda network by banning American companies and individuals from dealing with foreign banks and financial institutions that al-Qaeda was using for its money-laundering operations. Texas Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, gutted the portions of Clinton's bill dealing with this matter, calling them "totalitarian."
In fact, Gramm was compelled to kill the bill because his most devoted patrons, the Enron Corporation and its criminal executives in Houston, were using those same terrorist financial networks to launder their own dirty money and rip off the Enron stockholders. It should also be noted that Gramm's wife, Wendy, sat on the Enron Board of Directors.
Just before departing office, Clinton managed to make a deal with the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development to have some twenty nations close tax havens used by al-Qaeda. His term ended before the deal was sealed, and the incoming Bush administration acted immediately to destroy the agreement.
According to Time magazine, in an article entitled "Banking on Secrecy" published in October of 2001, Bush economic advisors Larry Lindsey and R. Glenn Hubbard were urged by think tanks like the Center for Freedom and Prosperity to opt out of the coalition Clinton had formed. The conservative Heritage Foundation lobbied Bush's Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, to do the same.
In the end, the lobbyists got what they wanted, and the Bush administration pulled out of the plan. The Time article stated, "Without the world's financial superpower, the biggest effort in years to rid the world's financial system of dirty money was short-circuited."
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
No explanation given as to why I'm wrong? Shame on you.
And Tiesto, just think, it's been 5 years since 9/11 and we haven't caught been laden. 2 more years (Which will be the end of Bush's term) and Bush will be in the same boat as Clinton. Bin Laden could very well be financing another attack on the United States, and since we didn't catch him, It will be Bush's fault for not capturing him. |
You do know that Bin Laden did not plan or design the 9.11 attacks right? It was developed by Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Bin Laden really only financed the whole thing.
Yousef is in a super maz prison in the US and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was caught in 2003.
So the men behind 9.11 WERE caught. Though Bin Laden still needs to be brought down. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
link |
save your nutty sites please. |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
You do know that Bin Laden did not plan or design the 9.11 attacks right? It was developed by Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Bin Laden really only financed the whole thing.
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Which...............I.................Said.
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
And Tiesto, just think, it's been 5 years since 9/11 and we haven't caught been laden. 2 more years (Which will be the end of Bush's term) and Bush will be in the same boat as Clinton. Bin Laden could very well be financing another attack on the United States, and since we didn't catch him, It will be Bush's fault for not capturing him. |
Wow. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
How many attacks have happened under Bush's watch?
How many under Clinton's?
Clinton:
World Trade Center 1993
Khobar Towers
Embassy in Kenya
Embassy in Tanzania
Oklahoma City (evidence can suggest Yousef had a role in this)
USS Cole
Somalia
Shall i go on? |
i am unsure as to what youre trying to argue. are you laying the blame for embassy bombings at the feet of the clinton administration? dont be absurd.
what was the terrorist attack in somalia? do you think the current administration would have prevented the cole attack? please. the reason there was no retaliation for cole, is that the CIA had no evidence pointing to bin laden until after clinton left office. what exactly did bush do with that information? NOTHING. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
save your nutty sites please. |
i dont read nutty sites :rolleyes: but feel free just to ignore all the evidence to the contrary, that your beloved conservatives ham-strung the democrat efforts to improve anti-terrorism measures around the world. typical partisan hack :rolleyes: |
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| Jocker |
| quote: | Originally posted by wizniz
seriously. most of them are dead and we've paid them back a million times over by now.
its time to be open minded again. |
most of those who have committed acts of terror are surely dead now. but what about those who are just in training? do you forgive them as well? what if they kill your family - say, your mother. will you forgive them?
who exactly did we pay back? we cannot pay back suicide bombers, as you've said, they are dead now. we are yet to pay back to those in training - as until they blow themselves up with a couple of dozen of other people, they are just civilians, aren't they. waging war in iraq is also not paying back - they had nothing to do with that (and neither did american soldiers who died).
oh yeah, taking security seriously is now called close-minded? |
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