|
Is Trance The Hardest Style To Get Sounding Good?? (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by gr8ape
Trance is the ahrdest to make because there are alot of people making it.
More people making it = better techniques, more innovation.
The better the production, the harder it is to distinguish yourself |
if that was logical pop music and rap would be hardest and the most innovative genres? |
|
|
| rounser |
| quote: | | if that was logical pop music and rap would be hardest and the most innovative genres? |
Pop has a lot of producers?
I assumed that it was one of the least popular genres for producers to make, given that I never hear attempts at the genre online (or at least, if they exist and I've heard them then they're so poor that I wouldn't even recognise them as pop). "Giving the people what they want" isn't as easy as it sounds, and has no "I'm underground" cred which producers seem to crave.
But that's all assumption... |
|
|
| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Derivative
But the overwhelming majority of Trance is so... |
+11ty :D |
|
|
| DJ KING#1 |
yeah this is hella intresting id say due to the fact that everyone mainly produces trance and that theres a high demand of artist wanting to get signed id have to agree that its a bit more harder dnb is not always on demand but it still kicks ass :)
and yes like all other genres of production it takes time to get good at any of them depending on your range of produces in diffrent areas
i mean that would be like oakenfold suddenly producing dnb just wouldnt work... |
|
|
| Derivative |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
ur |
lawl. Good answer dawg. |
|
|
| LENG |
| in the end of the day, the producer himself is the only that benefits from the whole process... maybe not true for everyone but at least it is for me. hey, i made myself a new song :) wouldn't you agree? it doesn't have to make big bucks, if there's someone that appreciates your track, hey, you're a winner :) |
|
|
| Nemesis44 |
Interesting subject.
I know a lot of house producers. Most of them are pretty clueless when it comes to production techniques but they are releasing tracks and getting them signed. Most tracks are pretty terrible but one or two are doing pretty well but they are working with people who can produce.
It appears to be the norm in house music for a lot of producers to work with more experienced people but still stick their name to it. Saying that, a lot of people do this.
With regard to house music, personally I find it really dull (personal preference mind you) but I have made a few colaberations and some are actually now in the process of getting signed and it really wasn't that difficult at all. But I have found my trance producing experience invaluable to this.
In terms of signing a trance record... well I actually think there is some what of a missunderstanding on these forums. And if you think that trance is the most popular genre at the moment you must be living on another planet because House is easily the most dominant EDM force right now, hence everyone wants to be a part of this and will sign any old including my stuff.
Trance went through this phase a while back but these days I find that there is actually a lack of labels who are willing to sign artists and the majority of absolute e these days is actually coming from the so called reputable labels.
As you get more accustomed to a genre that you are working with naturally things will get easier and as a result you will hopefully try and challenge yourself in new ways and ultimately do something inovative.
As for working with other genres, well there is a big difference between copying or stereotyping in comparison to actually feeling the artform and producing with passion.
I can know up something that sounds like drum and bass in less than hour and have pretty much the finished track but to anybody that's in the know of that genre they will easily see that it sounds both cliche'd and probably quite unimaginative not to mention a few other genre specific no nos.
Trance as a genre... Well is it harder? Perhaps we should identify what it is that is harder. In terms of composition it's fair to say that anything you are not into will always be tougher. For production techniques themselves, very often the separator from a trance track and a house track appart from the obvious sound is the sheer amount of techniques actually used.
House music is all about the groove, Trance is different and has far more musical elements.
As long as you are not fully understanding what you are doing or why for that matter you will always just sound like you are emulating something.
If you have a passion and beleive in what you are doing that's when the music comes, and it is difficult to feel that way about lots of genres at any one time (Not saying it's not possible).
It also depends on as I mentioned earlier on how much you do yourself as I am pretty convinced that a Trance producer would have an easier transition to House or DnB than visa versa in terms of technical skill. Trance relies heavily on innovative production techniques and has this as a main feature which would benefit the trance producer on that level. The risk is that you overproduce if you come from a trance background as very often other more 'airy' music styles will sound very thin in your ears.
In overall mix down the other genres are definately easier as you have less frequencies competing for head room.
Hip Hop techniques are totally different as the whole 4/4 structure is not present in the same way not to mention the way the samples are cut in order to give it a rougher, more live sound and things are generally less tight again depending on which branch you are working within.
It is my opinion that the current wave of chunky electro house is reaching it's peak and will probably drop off considerably in the not too distant future.
In terms of trance, there are lots of people who are turning away from it and currently there isn't really anyone who is doing much to fire up internest in this.
Again, only in my opinion but I will give it none the same, trance has lost the element that made it what it was and that is the anthemic style melodies. There are plenty of excellent producers but not many people who can actually write that melody that sets the floor on fire. And this seems to have been overlooked in today's productions. I find that although I still spin mainly trance the majority of stuff is pretty non memorable and the times that I see peoples faces really come alive is when I drop some of the older tunes. Also in speaking to clubbers after a set a lot of them will say that they don't enjoy the new trance as much and often comment on older tracks 'when you dropped so and so I just went crazy'.
Another interesting factor that I have noticed is that Trance and Prog seems to have embraced a lot of the new technology in a much more positive way than some of the other genres. Possibly due to the audience that it appeals to being generally younger and more internet savy. As stated earlier, this is by far one of the most active forums in terms of both DJing and Production and frequented by many who are not always genuine 'Trance Addicts', (That is a good thing by the way).
With the acceptance of MP3 and so on especially in trance, this has actually changed the face of the record industry and many labels now don't bother with vinyl or have just stopped existing all together. In some ways music has become more disposable and with less cost to the company putting it out so perhaps are less fussy about the over all product... Perhaps.
It's a vast subject and very open to debate so I do recognise that this is just my opinion.
Cheers
Nem |
|
|
| dj_kane |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
Interesting subject.
I know a lot of house producers. Most of them are pretty clueless when it comes to production techniques but they are releasing tracks and getting them signed. Most tracks are pretty terrible but one or two are doing pretty well but they are working with people who can produce.
It appears to be the norm in house music for a lot of producers to work with more experienced people but still stick their name to it. Saying that, a lot of people do this.
With regard to house music, personally I find it really dull (personal preference mind you) but I have made a few colaberations and some are actually now in the process of getting signed and it really wasn't that difficult at all. But I have found my trance producing experience invaluable to this.
In terms of signing a trance record... well I actually think there is some what of a missunderstanding on these forums. And if you think that trance is the most popular genre at the moment you must be living on another planet because House is easily the most dominant EDM force right now, hence everyone wants to be a part of this and will sign any old including my stuff.
Trance went through this phase a while back but these days I find that there is actually a lack of labels who are willing to sign artists and the majority of absolute e these days is actually coming from the so called reputable labels.
As you get more accustomed to a genre that you are working with naturally things will get easier and as a result you will hopefully try and challenge yourself in new ways and ultimately do something inovative.
As for working with other genres, well there is a big difference between copying or stereotyping in comparison to actually feeling the artform and producing with passion.
I can know up something that sounds like drum and bass in less than hour and have pretty much the finished track but to anybody that's in the know of that genre they will easily see that it sounds both cliche'd and probably quite unimaginative not to mention a few other genre specific no nos.
Trance as a genre... Well is it harder? Perhaps we should identify what it is that is harder. In terms of composition it's fair to say that anything you are not into will always be tougher. For production techniques themselves, very often the separator from a trance track and a house track appart from the obvious sound is the sheer amount of techniques actually used.
House music is all about the groove, Trance is different and has far more musical elements.
As long as you are not fully understanding what you are doing or why for that matter you will always just sound like you are emulating something.
If you have a passion and beleive in what you are doing that's when the music comes, and it is difficult to feel that way about lots of genres at any one time (Not saying it's not possible).
It also depends on as I mentioned earlier on how much you do yourself as I am pretty convinced that a Trance producer would have an easier transition to House or DnB than visa versa in terms of technical skill. Trance relies heavily on innovative production techniques and has this as a main feature which would benefit the trance producer on that level. The risk is that you overproduce if you come from a trance background as very often other more 'airy' music styles will sound very thin in your ears.
In overall mix down the other genres are definately easier as you have less frequencies competing for head room.
Hip Hop techniques are totally different as the whole 4/4 structure is not present in the same way not to mention the way the samples are cut in order to give it a rougher, more live sound and things are generally less tight again depending on which branch you are working within.
It is my opinion that the current wave of chunky electro house is reaching it's peak and will probably drop off considerably in the not too distant future.
In terms of trance, there are lots of people who are turning away from it and currently there isn't really anyone who is doing much to fire up internest in this.
Again, only in my opinion but I will give it none the same, trance has lost the element that made it what it was and that is the anthemic style melodies. There are plenty of excellent producers but not many people who can actually write that melody that sets the floor on fire. And this seems to have been overlooked in today's productions. I find that although I still spin mainly trance the majority of stuff is pretty non memorable and the times that I see peoples faces really come alive is when I drop some of the older tunes. Also in speaking to clubbers after a set a lot of them will say that they don't enjoy the new trance as much and often comment on older tracks 'when you dropped so and so I just went crazy'.
Another interesting factor that I have noticed is that Trance and Prog seems to have embraced a lot of the new technology in a much more positive way than some of the other genres. Possibly due to the audience that it appeals to being generally younger and more internet savy. As stated earlier, this is by far one of the most active forums in terms of both DJing and Production and frequented by many who are not always genuine 'Trance Addicts', (That is a good thing by the way).
With the acceptance of MP3 and so on especially in trance, this has actually changed the face of the record industry and many labels now don't bother with vinyl or have just stopped existing all together. In some ways music has become more disposable and with less cost to the company putting it out so perhaps are less fussy about the over all product... Perhaps.
It's a vast subject and very open to debate so I do recognise that this is just my opinion.
Cheers
Nem |
have to agree with this. making the cross from producing trance to house is very easy. trance is full of new elements happening constantly. house is very repetitive with its structure. |
|
|
| EtherealSL |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
d&b is easy to me.. grab an amen or other break, get a fat bass, your already 75% done. |
Any music professor will tell you that rhythm is the backbone of all music. Melody is secondary. No matter how melodious a song may be, without proper rhythm, no song will sound musical. Trance's basic rhythm is a given (four on the floor).
Drum n bass goes back to the absolute fundamentals and focuses solely on rhythm. Trance is a joke to produce compared to dnb, especially the modern stuff that's coming out on dnb labels like Human, Barcode, Renegade, Evol Intent, and Lifted. The drum algorithms are so complex and unorthodox, and for that reason it remains in the underground and is very hard to appreciate upon first listen. Any electronic I listen to is dnb. I listen to very little trance today. If i want something melodically complex, I'll listen to classical, if I want something rhythmically complex, I listen to dnb.
Creating a trance song is easy... and I agree with the earlier posters in saying that producing GOOD trance is definately hard. But producing good dnb is way harder.
EDIT:
http://www.liftedmusic.co.uk/Site/
listen to "glock party" and "screw up" |
|
|
| Nemesis44 |
Checked it out and it's definately good DnB.
Sure it's difficult to do, but I disagree with you that it would be any harder to do for an experienced DnB producer to do that than it would be for a Trance producer to do what they do. Not suggesting it's easier either but it's not comparing like for like.
That particular tracks sounds way more complexed than it actually is due to the heavy use of jungle samples which have been cleverly used to give it that frenzied feel that was so typical back in the early 90s.
In genres like DnB you can get much further with less actual 'music knowledge' than in trance for example but you need a greater understanding of rythm definately so in that respect your point is well made.
I DJayed DnB for a while but after a time you realise that for the most part it's pretty much of a muchness and offers little variation no matter how crazy the beats sound.
From my own prespective I grew tired of it and put it on the shelf as it really was doing nothing for me.
I don't know maybe I have a different take on this as I used to play the drums for a while and never really found rythm that hard. DnB fundamentally also works around a 4/4 at about 170 bpm but places more emphasis on what goes inbetween. It's the same for all dance music unless you look at some of the crazier trip hop which throws in some strange time signatures from time to time.
Peace
Nem |
|
|
| Derivative |
| quote: | Originally posted by EtherealSL
Any music professor will tell you that rhythm is the backbone of all music. Melody is secondary. No matter how melodious a song may be, without proper rhythm, no song will sound musical. Trance's basic rhythm is a given (four on the floor).
Drum n bass goes back to the absolute fundamentals and focuses solely on rhythm. Trance is a joke to produce compared to dnb, especially the modern stuff that's coming out on dnb labels like Human, Barcode, Renegade, Evol Intent, and Lifted. The drum algorithms are so complex and unorthodox, and for that reason it remains in the underground and is very hard to appreciate upon first listen. Any electronic I listen to is dnb. I listen to very little trance today. If i want something melodically complex, I'll listen to classical, if I want something rhythmically complex, I listen to dnb.
Creating a trance song is easy... and I agree with the earlier posters in saying that producing GOOD trance is definately hard. But producing good dnb is way harder.
EDIT:
http://www.liftedmusic.co.uk/Site/
listen to "glock party" and "screw up" |
Eh. DnB isn't hard to produce. It is if you don't know where to start and don't have a sampler. Trance isn't hard to produce, if you have an appropriate synth and know how to use it.
It comes down to what you know and who you know. If you know more people in the DnB scene that are producing music and you are aquainted you will be able to pick up the rope and the tips and tricks of the trade very quickly. It isn't hard.
If you don't know many people who can fill in the gaps in your knowledge for you, then you will find it difficult.
If you don't know what the you are doing yourself and don['t know anyone who can help you out (or if they don't want to work with you) then you will find any style of music impossible to produce. |
|
|
|
|
