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Buying Kidneys - A Good Thing? (pg. 2)
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
all it does is further entrench the rich-poor divide. |
Not if your new kidney is paid for by the government ;) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
Not if your new kidney is paid for by the government ;) |
that would never work. if the government is paying one fee, all that does is increase the amount of money the organ could fetch on the free market. |
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| Yoepus |
i guess this would be as wrong as donating an egg....
donating sperm doesn't require any nasty procedures, so it would be less of an ethical comparison. some people even find it pleasurable! imagine that!:nervous: |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
i guess this would be as wrong as donating an egg....
donating sperm doesn't require any nasty procedures, so it would be less of an ethical comparison. some people even find it pleasurable! imagine that!:nervous: |
they are renewable resources which makes the comparison pretty poor. no man or woman is going to have a lower quality of life for donating their genetic material. |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
that would never work. if the government is paying one fee, all that does is increase the amount of money the organ could fetch on the free market. |
..until the demand meets supply, and there you have the market price for a kidney, which would be the price the government would pay! Simple supply and demand! |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
It does have effects.. the blood and sperm for example have functions in the body even when they breakdown.
Although you can say that taking a little won't hurt. The thing is that you are changing it from a perfect scale to a "sphere" of acceptable living. when you give blood, you are taking a wound. when you donate sperm you are giving a out a bunch of chemicals produced in the body, if it is by ejaculation then it causes a neurochemical release of various chemicals.
Although we may bleed or have an emission by accident, to say it has no effect or no negative effect is potentially false.
All that stuff is living cells, true cells may live and die on a daily basis for us, but frequent donations of blood or sperm have noticable effects. In case of extreme donation it has very much negative or adverse effects.
Also some religions may not agree with the concept of blood or especially mastabatory sperm donations, in some countries for that matter masturbation is illegal.
In the matter of sperm you are loosing protiens, hormones, and high grade sugars and otherthings, that may otherwise be broken down in the body and aid in muscle production or otherwise.
I personally do not support casual blood or sperm donations, only emergency ones. (sperm for reproduction seems weird since there is a world population of what 5 or 6 billion)
but I am pretty borderline on that. Obviously many people give blood and it is much appreciated for those who need it. I tend to have much higher standards of medical practice than the average person, imo. |
sorry, but there is no parallel here. what you've written is completely irrelevant. sperm is meant to be lost, thats what it is designed for. blood can be replenished quickly an easily. its not the same as losing an irreplaceable organ. to equate it as such is quite disingenuous.
| quote: | Originally posted by St_Andrew
..until the demand meets supply, and there you have the market price for a kidney, which would be the price the government would pay! Simple supply and demand! |
true, but my original post is more tied to that it will essentially be poor people selling their organs to rich people. its not right. there are some things that should not be commodified. i understand the rights one should have over their body, but selling organs creates too many problems imo. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
true, but my original post is more tied to that it will essentially be poor people selling their organs to rich people. its not right. there are some things that should not be commodified. i understand the rights one should have over their body, but selling organs creates too many problems imo. |
So what rights do you have over your own body if others can dictate what you can and cannot do with it? Are you in favor of making suicide "illegal"? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
So what rights do you have over your own body if others can dictate what you can and cannot do with it? Are you in favor of making suicide "illegal"? |
thats not a reasonable comparison. suicide isn't going to become a rich versus poor dynamic where the rich are benefiting from homeless people's suicides ;) things like organs should go to the most deserving, not those that can easily afford it. theres too much stratification in society as it is.
there was an interesting experiment recently, where doctors transplanted several donated organs from relatives on transplant lists. essentially they just matched up the blood types and got a relative of each recipient to donate to someone else, who in turn would donate to someone else etc. this is how transplants should work.
im not a fan of the nanny state any more than you are, but those better off already enjoy far healthier lifestyles, and the gift of life should never come down to how much cash you have in your bank account. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| actually, how about a compromise? people are free to sell their organs to government medical institutions, where those organs are given to those who have been waiting on a transplant list? that way we avoid the nanny state on behalf of the seller and also prevent abuse from those with deep pockets? |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
actually, how about a compromise? people are free to sell their organs to government medical institutions, where those organs are given to those who have been waiting on a transplant list? that way we avoid the nanny state on behalf of the seller and also prevent abuse from those with deep pockets? |
As if thats going too work :)
The 'human' element will pop up as sure as temptation exists in the hearts of anyone with a pulse.
"Lets have a Moral Hypothetical"
The story here is, I'm willing too pay $10k US for that kidney, all Mr Doc in the government medical institution has to do for me is find a 'donor' and I'll double his yearly income with another 10k for himself.
20k sound like small beer?
Probably, but it's a lot over there and not so much overseas in a developed nation its not unobtainable and heck, go looking for a loan too save yourself or someone close too you and we're easy looking at money around the $100k mark or more.
That'll put Mr Doc's kids through university locally or maybe overseas if he knocks over a couple of these deals, the kidney is extracted and I'm a happy customer, doc gets some money, the 'donator' gets some money and we're good, Doc can write it off in the books as an 'unviable' organ or the donator had hep or something else.
Few years down the track
Now before we go too far into it here, lets examine the idea of looking down the barrel of your own mortality, youre a young-ish person with some cash and a bright future. You have either yourself or a partner who is going too die if they dont get a heart lung transplant.
The conundrum here is that money can solve all your problems.
That and theres no icky personal danger too yourself, youre not going in there with the sharp knife and hacking out some juicy working bits or getting the slightest drop of blood on your hands.
The doctor who's performing the operation if a donor becomes available suggests to you, he knows some people.
Theres a meeting, money is exchanged too overseas bank accounts and a week later your new parts arrive, somewhere, someone donating their organs doesn't wake up from an operation due too 'complications' (pay off the local law enforcement if they have too) and they get patched into yourself or whoever needs them. Problem solved.
So, how does the 3rd world and developing countries protect themselves from this kind of cash for a kill type of proceedure? |
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| echosystm |
| wow. i guess its good if you have a lot of money, but bl for everyone else :S |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
true, but my original post is more tied to that it will essentially be poor people selling their organs to rich people. its not right. there are some things that should not be commodified. i understand the rights one should have over their body, but selling organs creates too many problems imo. |
But a kidney operation is not more dangerous than other things in society that we agree is okay. Just imagine all the high risk jobs that we allow, which primarily poor people do - for the money. Why not ban them as well? Or make them low paid jobs so no one would do it for the money? Makes as much sense. |
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