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*UPDATE* A rush to Judge - Another Lie from US Admin? (pg. 3)
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View this Thread in Original format
| LazFX |
More news ..... Again with a Top Brass going against the Grain of El Busho'
| quote: | WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace appeared Tuesday to question Bush administration assertions that the Iranian government is supplying weapons to Shiite militant groups in Iraq.
"We know that the explosively formed penetrators are manufactured in Iran," Pace told Voice of America during a trip to Australia about what senior military officials call EFPs.
"What I would not say is that the Iranian government per se knows about this. It is clear that Iranians are involved and it is clear that materials from Iran are involved, but I would not say, based on what I know, that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit," Pace said. (Watch other commanders left out of the loop )
Senior military officials said Sunday that EFPs, which can punch holes in armored vehicles, are made in such a way that they can be traced to Iran.
They blamed EFPs for at least 170 coalition fatalities, though they offered no indication of how they came up with that figure.
White House spokesman Tony Snow on Tuesday portrayed the general's comments as in line with the administration's viewpoint.
"He says they exist, correct?" he asked CNN's Ed Henry, who had questioned whether the administration was speaking with one voice. "There are Iranians in Iraq. There's no question about that, correct? So, where's the credibility problem?"
Henry pointed out that Pace was questioning the Iranian government's putative role in the weapons, not the fact that the weapons may have been made in Iran.
To that, Snow said, "The Quds force is part of the Iranian government. The Quds force is behind it, is associated with it." (Watch Henry's exchange with Snow )
The U.S. military has said the munitions are being provided to Shiite groups in Iraq by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's Quds force, which answers directly to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
The military officials said a senior operations officer for the Quds force was among several Iranian officers arrested in Irbil -- in Iraq's Kurdish region -- in the past few weeks.
Political maneuvering also alleged
According to the U.S. military, other Iranian officers have provided information that Iran is arming a prominent Iraqi political organization.
Those officers were detained during a December raid on the Baghdad compound of Abdul Aziz Hakim, the head of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a powerful Shiite political group with close ties to Iran, the U.S. military said.
The Baghdad raid also netted documents that confirmed the arms sale, the U.S. military said.
Officials with the political organization said the munitions were used for security purposes, an assertion disputed by U.S. military officials, who said the mortars and sniper rifles were not intended to be used for self-defense.
The purported credibility problem alluded to by Snow was deepened for some by the fact that the senior military officials who presented their evidence on Sunday did so anonymously and off camera.
"I get a little skeptical about that kind of information," Democratic Sen. Christopher Dodd, a 2008 presidential hopeful, told CNN on Tuesday.
Snow dismissed that concern as unfounded. He added that he had just spoken by telephone with Pace, who told him he and White House officials are on the same page.
Pace was en route back to the United States and unavailable to reporters.
His comments came a day after an official with the Iranian Embassy in Baghdad rejected the administration's assertions of Iranian involvement in Iraq.
"It's all lies and it's not true at all," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini told CNN. "The American administration has made many mistakes in Iraq and now they want to use Iran as a scapegoat."
Senators see echoes of Iraq run-up
In an interview Friday with National Public Radio, Iranian Ambassador to the U.N. Javad Zarif said Iran has provided no weapons to Iraqi insurgents and does not want to.
In the United States, some Iraq war critics likened the Bush administration's highlighting of Iranian involvement in Iraq to the administration's run-up to the war in Iraq, contending officials are attempting a find a reason to invade Iran. The administration denies this.
In an interview on Monday with C-SPAN, Bush said the United States is committed to resolving the impasse over Iran's nuclear program diplomatically.
"We've got a comprehensive policy aimed to solve this peacefully," he said.
Sen. Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat, was not persuaded.
"That was said repeatedly before the effort was made to go to war with Iraq," said Wyden.
Wyden, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Bush administration officials have promised -- and postponed -- a briefing for lawmakers on Iranian links to the Shiite militias blamed for attacks on U.S. troops and the country's Sunni population.
"I want the administration to deliver the full briefing that they promised, the one that's been put off time and time again now, so we can really get at the facts," he said.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters Tuesday that the evidence of Iranian government involvement in Iraq was "very, very weak," adding, "If they are involved, let's see the facts."
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This is really starting to get obvious, when your own Top Dog starts to cast doubt, people should just listen. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
+1, hardcore hurt my feelings :(
All I was doing Hardcore was pointing out the thread I started that actually showed pictures of the so called Iranian weapons. Supported this thread, and you attack me?? Why? You don't like me?? Well I am going to need some therapy for that, some body from Canada has an issue with me OMG!!
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Don't worry LazFX, hopefully we'll be thinning the herd soon enough when it comes to that play-school rhetoric...the irony being they'll do it to themselves... |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
...the irony being they'll do it to themselves... |
I am not really worried about them "people" :rolleyes: I can be civil when told to by a Mod. Cause its called a sense of Respect. those "people" always use, "well so and so does it too" or scream Double Standard in the face of the Mod.....
those "people" really are nothing but spoiled little kids that think their regurgitated Chomsky quotes or racist views on Jews, Americans or the West in general are golden. All the while they soak it up in the life style that the West gives to them, No questions asked. |
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| Lira |
Hardcore trancer: Watch your mouth if you want to keep posting!
Star-Traveller: LazFX's thread talks about the same issue and was posted earlier. I'm merging both threads - Same topic, same thread. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
More news ..... Again with a Top Brass going against the Grain of El Busho'
This is really starting to get obvious, when your own Top Dog starts to cast doubt, people should just listen. |
whats obvious?
last year Iran bought 800 of these .50 cal Steyrs from Austria for their Republican guard.
against the advice of Buler and the Brits, Austria still sold them to Iran. so far we have found over a 100 of these bad boys in Iraq all traced back to Iran.
>link<
to me that is obvious.
no one in the administration is calling for war with Iran, contrary to what you might think. but let it be known that none of this will go unsaid. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
whats obvious?
last year Iran bought 800 of these .50 cal Steyrs from Austria for their Republican guard.
against the advice of Buler and the Brits, Austria still sold them to Iran. so far we have found over a 100 of these bad boys in Iraq all traced back to Iran.
>link<
to me that is obvious.
no one in the administration is calling for war with Iran, contrary to what you might think. but let it be known that none of this will go unsaid. |
I hear ya on that, and the "Old War Hawk" that is in me, wants so much to just get it over with and ask questions later, but we see where that attitude got us in Iraq. We must tread this pool of suspicion very carefully, young grasshoppa. The US has sold arms to others that can be traced back to us as well, but does that mean we should be held responsible, Iran Contra rings a bell with me....
The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence :D |
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| hardcore trancer |
oh I love the double standards here:rolleyes:
U.S supplies Israel weapons all the time,the same weapons that they use to destroy Palestinians houses and killing children,wh isnt anybody getting mad at them?is it because they are allies to the U.S??
This is all a game and this neocon admin is trying really really hard to come up with any excuse posssible to sell another war,the question here is will the American public fall yet again for another war and another possible invasion?but then again this is the same country that voted this monkey the second time so I wouldnt be surprised. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
oh I love the double standards here:rolleyes:
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There is no double standard, all of us, including myself are and were guilty of slinging mud. Its called maturity, when one decides to listen to the requests of the mod. Once one realizes that he/she was guilty of the infractions then all is good. I still love ya Hardcore ;)
and you are right about the Palastinian situation. But it is also correct that this thread was started to show basically about how this Admin is lying about this Iran mess.
Oh Tony "Snow Job" Snow has his work cut out for him |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Sort of ties into my suspicians that I mentioned there and the source I was looking at there.
Well, before it went to hell and name calling... such is PDD.
Think we're going to see some kind of action in Iran coming up to the nuke inspections deadline that ends either this week or next. Probably open up with UN sanctions if they're not playing nice and well all know the rest. |
American government was even more certain of existence AND location of WMD's, too ;-) Quote frankly, with regards to the Iranian nuclear program, well, Iran broke off the talks ever since Americans invaded its neighbours - Afghanistan and Iraq. If I was an Iranian leader, I'd be feeling very safe surrounded by enemies (American-allies 'n puppets). So there's no need to blame Iran here, it was the Americans actions in Middle East of the last 4 years that have resulted in this. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
whats obvious?
last year Iran bought 800 of these .50 cal Steyrs from Austria for their Republican guard.
against the advice of Buler and the Brits, Austria still sold them to Iran. so far we have found over a 100 of these bad boys in Iraq all traced back to Iran.
>link<
to me that is obvious.
no one in the administration is calling for war with Iran, contrary to what you might think. but let it be known that none of this will go unsaid. |
No one denies what you are saying. Iranian influence and involvement is factual. The two problems with this story, however are this:
1. Is there involvement coming from top Iranian government officials, i.e. is the Iranian government behind these attacks?
2. To what degree is Iranian influence, i.e. IEDs and so forth taking on the lives of our troops and Iraqi citizens? IOW, are they a major threat?
According to General Pace, Tony Snow, CentCom Commander Fallon, and even Dubya today, they cannot claim this. That runs DIRECTLY COUNTER to the claims made by "senior U.S. military officials" the other day when they said this:
| quote: | At issue was a weekend briefing in Baghdad at which three senior U.S. military officials said that the ''highest levels'' of the Iranian government had ordered the smuggling into Iraq of high-tech roadside bombs that have been killing American soldiers.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-US-Iran-Iraq.html |
As for #2, I'm low on time but can anyone answer to what is considered more of a threat in Iraq right now? The last I recall, the vast majority of U.S. military deaths have been attributed to Sunni insurgents, not Iranian influence on Shiite factions. But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. |
youre not wrong, but are you minimizing the smaller no. of deaths attributed to Iran?
| quote: | | According to General Pace, Tony Snow, CentCom Commander Fallon, and even Dubya today, they cannot claim this. That runs DIRECTLY COUNTER to the claims made by "senior U.S. military officials" the other day when they said this: |
i really don't have an explaination for that and can't find one.
i can only say intel can be very fluid even outside a huge beaurocracy. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
whats obvious?
last year Iran bought 800 of these .50 cal Steyrs from Austria for their Republican guard.
against the advice of Buler and the Brits, Austria still sold them to Iran. so far we have found over a 100 of these bad boys in Iraq all traced back to Iran.
>link<
to me that is obvious.
no one in the administration is calling for war with Iran, contrary to what you might think. but let it be known that none of this will go unsaid. |
:haha: :haha: :haha: Alright then, using this analogy lets blame Russia for "selling" Kalashnikovs to the Iraqi resistance ... :stongue:
Iran didnt make these guns, and quite frankly they're not the only ones who have them. There's no proof, no fingerprints, no manufacturing numbers matching with database/receipt that proves this. Its just speculation, and in the case of that article - a speculation with no hard evidence, just propaganda aimed against Iran, just like the famous WMD's proof. :stongue:
Are the suicide bombers Iranian as well? There's plenty of evidence to point that out, plus the bombs evidence, too :rolleyes: |
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