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NY Mag - From Paris to Prostitues: The Short, Drunken Life of Club Row (pg. 2)
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| sheila-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by djquick83
Pretty much summed it up. As much as its nice knowing theres an underground place to offer good music with a cool deep vibe, it isnt possible with the amount of overhead of running a club, especially in NYC. Most of the cool places in the city are making very little money when it comes down to it, like LOVE or Sullivan Room for example. I mean Im surprised if they even break even at end of the day when its all said and done, considering Ive been there when there was no more than 5 ppl on the dancefloor. On the same end, u got Crobar that has all the VIP crap, yet makes tons of money and ppl always hate cause the crowd isnt to their liking. Unfortunately, it takes bottles and models to pay rent at the end of the month. DJ prices have gone much higher than before, mostly cause ppl got famous etc. But same will happen to the local DJs ten yrs from now(your ordinary DJ Tek will ask for 30K for a 4 hr set :crazy: ). Its just what comes with the territory. I mean Arc was the only place with a good mix of both, but that didnt work out too well either considering it aint around anymore. The best thing imo is for diff promoters to just rent out venues, bring the Djs, advertise the party and just pay ppl. Seems to work a lot better in Europe and most of the good parties over there dont actually occur in clubs due to overhead, but in large warehouses, outdoors, stadiums etc. Unless u own the property, have tons of capital to invest, which is prob the case with Timmy Regisford and Shelter, or you have it worked out so ure costs are low and u make slightly above on the profits, its not wise to open a new club in hopes of it becoming successful over nite. |
This part of the discussion reminded me of why there a fewer and fewer interesting films being made. I've spent the last fifteen years in that industry and I can honestly tell you that the entertainment industry wants a "Sure Thing" in an unsure world. Overhead is so high that producers feel more comfortable making Saw IV, rather than something original. And the Saw movies bring up another point. The first one was made very inexpensively. I guess this illustrates (somewhat) creative and monetary success can be had if overhead is kept reasonably low (no big actors, limited effects), and a new idea is the crux of the appeal.
So how does this all relate to the club scene? I hope that there are still creative DJs out there (I know a few) that can make the music the draw. Not just say it do it. We've all been moved by music and those who play it. It can be done. I hope that there are promoters out there who can provide an atmosphere that appeals to mind and heart and not just libido. There are certainly people who post here who are more interested in the afore mentioned than getting to rub elbows with George Clooney. So lets hope that where we find this vibe, where we find these risk takers, we will support them. |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
The reason that it works out better in Europe is entirely cultural. US culture has pretty much gone right down the ter in the last 5-10 years. It's been very disillusioning to witness my generation contribute pretty much nothing positive, even in popular culture. If you think of music as a reflection of society, which I tend to see throughout history, these last 5-10 years have shown just how void of ideas we are. You see it in television, movies, everything. Ideas aren't created, they're just recycled, because it's more economically beneficial to do that than to create something new if the public is willing to eat it up.
I almost feel like we're stuck in a repeat of the late 70s-early 80s when the US had a very image-driven society and making money was the sole goal. I pray that there's the same sort of backlash that we witnessed in the late 80s-early 90s that will save us from the trashy, embarassing disgrace that our culture has become.
When twats like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Anna Nicole Smith, Britney Spears (nice ing hair, btw, and it's the TOP story on CNN) are what our society tries to emulate, rather than mock, it portrays a rather grim outlook on where we're are at this moment in time, and if it doesn't change, where we're headed. |
my thoughts EXACTLY |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
BTW, Mixmag (yes, I know, laugh...) has also given up on the Miami/WMC scene because of the same complaints mentioned above. |
ehhh... Mixmag has its own agenda... half the time i read something in Mixmag, it's really the opinion of one single editor or something and shouldn't be applied to the average clubber from the UK or anywhere else for that matter |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
ehhh... Mixmag has its own agenda... half the time i read something in Mixmag, it's really the opinion of one single editor or something and shouldn't be applied to the average clubber from the UK or anywhere else for that matter |
I don't think it was one editor's decision to pull the party from all of WMC. |
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| DJ Eco |
well when i read that article, all i saw was a) one editor who had a bad experience on line at WMC (probably claiming he had cut-the-line priveleges at a huge Space party and the bouncers were having none of it), and b) a whole background story to their unhappiness with the WMC that we will never know... it's very naive to think they objectively report from parties... as with everything, i'm sure a good deal of favors or $ was put into their pockets to push the Sonar festival so much as they have done in the past year.... being that James Mowbray is also a DJ, don't you think there is something or another behind his support for Sonar (a better deal for his magazine's coverage of it, or more gigs for him the DJ at Sonar than at WMC, or such things like this)?... WMC has reached a level of being "THE" Spring event, no more promotion even needs to be done anymore, people just flock there... the WMC committee or the powers that be, for all we know, might have given the big middle finger to Mixmag - i mean, what importance does it play to WMC to have Mixmag host parties and bring unnecessary press over to Miami, for a series of events that will sell out (and bring the same amount of British clubbers anyway, without having heard about it on Mixmag)....
all i'm saying is that this is one of the reasons i stopped giving 10$ every month to buy Mixmag... it's wrapped in its own little world, and has its own agenda, and has creeped a bit away from it having any sort of relevance to global music or clubbing culture... think about it... Sonar 2006 was basically a who's who of minimal tech and electro DJs... James Mowbray is himself a minimal tech and electro DJ.... there is no comparison between the vast array and variation of the biggest DJs in the world (anyone from PvD to Adam Beyer to Cosmic Gate to Loco Dice to anyone) at the WMC, and the minimal tech junkie's playground of Sonar... someone who runs a magazine or newspaper SO has the power to influence what direction the magazine takes on a particular issue, so that is why i said it's really the opinion of one single editor (in this case, the editor that really COUNTS)....
of course a bunch of people will disagree with me and give me the whole "Miami is not what it used to be" line... but look at Miami's lineup of events and festivals and look at Sonar's... Sonar is a festival for minimal heads, Miami is a conference for everything (the headlining DJs from Sonar are all going to be at Miami, so there goes James' whole point) |
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| steven-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
well when i read that article, all i saw was a) one editor who had a bad experience on line at WMC (probably claiming he had cut-the-line priveleges at a huge Space party and the bouncers were having none of it), and b) a whole background story to their unhappiness with the WMC that we will never know... it's very naive to think they objectively report from parties... as with everything, i'm sure a good deal of favors or $ was put into their pockets to push the Sonar festival so much as they have done in the past year.... being that James Mowbray is also a DJ, don't you think there is something or another behind his support for Sonar (a better deal for his magazine's coverage of it, or more gigs for him the DJ at Sonar than at WMC, or such things like this)?... WMC has reached a level of being "THE" Spring event, no more promotion even needs to be done anymore, people just flock there... the WMC committee or the powers that be, for all we know, might have given the big middle finger to Mixmag - i mean, what importance does it play to WMC to have Mixmag host parties and bring unnecessary press over to Miami, for a series of events that will sell out (and bring the same amount of British clubbers anyway, without having heard about it on Mixmag)....
all i'm saying is that this is one of the reasons i stopped giving 10$ every month to buy Mixmag... it's wrapped in its own little world, and has its own agenda, and has creeped a bit away from it having any sort of relevance to global music or clubbing culture... think about it... Sonar 2006 was basically a who's who of minimal tech and electro DJs... James Mowbray is himself a minimal tech and electro DJ.... there is no comparison between the vast array and variation of the biggest DJs in the world (anyone from PvD to Adam Beyer to Cosmic Gate to Loco Dice to anyone) at the WMC, and the minimal tech junkie's playground of Sonar... someone who runs a magazine or newspaper SO has the power to influence what direction the magazine takes on a particular issue, so that is why i said it's really the opinion of one single editor (in this case, the editor that really COUNTS)....
of course a bunch of people will disagree with me and give me the whole "Miami is not what it used to be" line... but look at Miami's lineup of events and festivals and look at Sonar's... Sonar is a festival for minimal heads, Miami is a conference for everything (the headlining DJs from Sonar are all going to be at Miami, so there goes James' whole point) |
eco your so on point cos people used to say the same thing about Ibiza and its all crap...ibiza gets better every time i go....probably the same wit WMC....mixmag lost their way when dj mag and muzic became more popular,,mixmag became more mainstreem.... |
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| djquick83 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
I got ideas that will present an underground feel to a profitable establishment that "will succeed"...By using the right people and presenting them in a nice clean user friendly environment like arc....With medically trained doorstaff....And what is great is that it will be a third business paying for the mortgage on the property...Beautiful!!!!!...Ive seen promoters and clubs come and go very rapidly and all for the same reasons,,,,"stupidity"....A club, beer and a Dj dont make a night.....Production is the key....Any idiot in the world can secure a venue and hire a dj... |
Hey, if u can make it work, all the more power to you man. |
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| steven-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by djquick83
Hey, if u can make it work, all the more power to you man. |
i can..and i have the right people on board to do this... |
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| PvDoBseSSioN |
all these posts make this thread wayyy too long to read!
short version / verdict please |
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| DJ Eco |
| short verdict is: Magazines have an objective. They need to sell. They will exaggerate any story as much as they can to shock and wow people... imho, the account of 27th street was EXTREMELY exaggerated.... then I got into a similar but separate talk about Mixmag. Basically, all magazines (and any media forms) have the mentality to SELL (and make $$$$) but also further their own interests and agenda... New York Magazine and Mixmag are the best possible examples of this. |
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| djquick83 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
i can..and i have the right people on board to do this... |
In that case, I want my very own VIP table with complimentary bottle of Grey Goose. :D :p |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
short verdict is: Magazines have an objective. They need to sell. They will exaggerate any story as much as they can to shock and wow people... imho, the account of 27th street was EXTREMELY exaggerated.... then I got into a similar but separate talk about Mixmag. Basically, all magazines (and any media forms) have the mentality to SELL (and make $$$$) but also further their own interests and agenda... New York Magazine and Mixmag are the best possible examples of this. |
To be honest, I didn't really find the article that extremely exaggerated with regards to 27th St. It's the same people have been complaining about for the last year or two on lots of forums for the NY EDM scene. Maybe we're all just old and jaded...or maybe there's actually a lot of truth to it that you would just like to ignore.
When there are quotes from promoters, owners like Jon B, and employees stating the things that they are, it's a little hard to say it's fabricated. Their mission statements and tactics are in direct opposition to what a lot of people think is good for the club scene and what is good for society. People are pissed off because these actions make it harder and harder to have a good time out in this town. Investors see the money that can be made, without a ton of risk until lately, and want to support this style of club, making less and less venues free of the people that we were attempting to escape by going to clubs in the first place.
Also, how does making NYC's nightlife look bad help out a magazine that lives off of reporting on a lot of social events in New York? |
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