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Poor Toronto...no seriously, we're poor. (pg. 3)
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Dr. Das reminds me of another anti-establishment TOTA who we haven't heard from for a while...since right around the time Dr. Das started posting...wait a sec...:eek: :p |
Yeah I miss Jay... Though I never agreed with his political affiliation, his points made a lot of sense, and always backed up his comments professionally and never stabbed at the poster personally, but their statements. I respected him. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Matt
I'd actually say Mike Harris is a huge cause of what's going on now. Remember when we voted 70%+ against the Megacity? Well this is why. The costs of the new Megacity has been greatly outpacing the revenue, and that, combined with the downloading of responsibilities has caused to hit the fan. |
The megacity initiative (and other amalgamation of municipalities in Ontario) did not save money as it was originally advertised by the Tory provincials, but I don't think it's the Torie's fault.
Toronto is the biggest city in Toronto, therefore its needs for services and programs are going to get bigger. Toronto has few sources of revenue that it has pretty much tapped out. Therefore, there's going to be a deficit sooner or later.
Toronto has been living on borrowed times for a while. It just happens to get really worse during Miller's tenure.
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Like I said, it wouldn't matter who is in the Mayor's office... a) would be hitting the fan anyways, or (b) the widespread service cuts that are expected would have already taken place and we'd be pissed anyway. |
Well, barring a massive feds cash injection |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
I'm from Hamilton originally |
LOL! |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Matt
I'd actually say Mike Harris is a huge cause of what's going on now. Remember when we voted 70%+ against the Megacity? Well this is why. The costs of the new Megacity has been greatly outpacing the revenue, and that, combined with the downloading of responsibilities has caused to hit the fan. |
I'm sure you've got plenty of evidence to back up this claim, right?
(No Star articles, please)
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Actually, it'd make a perfect sense if Harper wanted an one time vote booster and make gains in Toronto for the Conservatives. |
Yes, but think how much it would piss off Quebec.
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Toronto is the biggest city in Toronto |
No kidding... |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Yes, but think how much it would piss off Quebec. |
IIRC, the last Conservative budget passed because of BQ support which they said Quebec got enough cash in transfer payments.
Of course Quebec would grumble about Ontario, but I don't think it'd be that loud, considering they just got a load.
d'oh... |
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| malek |
| Money does not buy votes, watch the next federal elections ;) |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
Money does not buy votes, watch the next federal elections ;) |
Maybe not in Quebec :p |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
Money does not buy votes, watch the next federal elections ;) |
That's only because the Liberals are broke. |
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| psychosomatica |
| lol 51% of the city budget to run the TTC... I think I've found the leak guys. |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by psychosomatica
lol 51% of the city budget to run the TTC... I think I've found the leak guys. |
Serious. That's ED. Elsewhere in the world they somehow manage to get their transit systems up to snuff with less of a cost in comparison to what TO and the TTC say they need, what gives? |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
Yeah I miss Jay... Though I never agreed with his political affiliation, his points made a lot of sense, and always backed up his comments professionally and never stabbed at the poster personally, but their statements. I respected him. |
Jay gave up on TOTA for now:) I'll send the hello's next time we chat on msn :p |
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| DigiNut |
York Region is managing for $166 million in 2007 including the swanky Viva buses. TTC wants $747 million just for this year. York at least clearly states what they're doing with it (PDF warning). TTC, I have no idea.
York obviously moves fewer people, and some of their fares are higher, but they also go greater distances and often have to manage with fewer riders per "trip", so I'm not sure what the comparison means. $747 million sure sounds like a lot though, especially since they purchase a lot of stuff second-hand. Also they waste assloads of money on those goddamn streetcars and other financial tarpits.
If anybody is actually interested in what's happened with the TTC, here's a quick history:
- From about 1992 onward (under Bob Rae, then Mike Harris), Ontario started paying less and less to the TTC.
- In 1998, Mike Harris cut their funding completely.
- In 2001, before Harris resigned, he proposed a new plan where the Province would pay 1/3 of the costs and the federal government would cough up another 1/3. The budget would have been $3 billion over 10 years. Not surprisingly, Chretien's government refused.
- One of McGuinty's campaign promises was that he'd follow the Harris plan. Everybody thought he was a shoe-in for this since he had a cozy relationship with the federal Liberals, and people suspected that Harris got denied because he was the one who cut the funding in the first place. McGuinty could, supposedly, make a fresh start.
- McGuinty broke that promise, like every other promise. He never hammered anything out with the federal government (don't blame Harper - McGuinty had 3 years to coax it out of the federal Liberals!), and the provincial contribution has, I think, been something to the tune of $300 million over five years - roughly 20% of what Mike Harris promised.
And what is Toronto doing with it's $1 billion (city + province combined)? Well, over $130 million is going into streetcars, almost $400 million is going into "green" (hybrid) buses, and $140 million on an "integrated ticketing system". How will any of this lower their operating costs? if I know.
Personally, I don't believe the TTC is a charity fund. I don't think that billions of dollars in taxes should be supporting them. They've been doing this for a very long time and should know how to run it at a profit by now or at least at a break-even point. The fact that they don't is all the more reason not to give them funding, which I think was Mike Harris' logic: why give them more money if they're just going to blow the budget anyway? Let them learn how to do their jobs for once. GO transit seems to do fine.
Nevertheless, even if you consider Mike Harris to be responsible for the TTC's current pathetic operation (and I don't), it's been chiefly in McGuinty's hands ever since he was elected. He's had plenty of opportunities to reinstate TTC funding and would have had widespread support, even from the provincial Tories. Instead, all he does is change the laws so David Miller is constitutionally entitled to keep his grubby paws in office for a year longer than normal.
I'm sure many disagree, but in my opinion the provincial Tories cut the TTC budget because they honestly believed that the TTC was incompetent and could fix their problems if forced to. The Liberals simply don't give a - they made a promise, broke it, and then threw the TTC an amount so tiny that it was basically an insult. Miller, for his role in this little drama, is trying to force drivers off the roads and onto the TTC which obviously can't even support its existing ridership properly.
Transportation is a bloody mess here. We can throw whatever money we want at the TTC but the only thing that's ever going to really fix it is having it run like a real business - in other words, privately owned and operated, or replaced with a system that is. |
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