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2008 Elections (pg. 5)
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| metalgearsolid |
| quote: | Originally posted by spiflicated
My point is that everyone's civil rights need to be protected. Your civil rights are no more important than Jake Benson's. |
Thank you for that. That is what people have to remember. Politicians are suppose to protect EVERYBODIES right to live regardless of their sexual orientation. B/c it's all genetics and nothing else. |
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| LatinLover |
The Dems dont have anything... If Obama/Clinton/Gore the best they can come up with I got to tell you... WE ARE IN DEEP !!!!
Clinton would have been president today if she would have sent Bill to hell after he disgraced the presidential office with the Monica scandal.. She knew he was guilty and still defended and stood by his side and came to his defense along with her daughter. If she would have said " this man in not worth anything and is a disgrace and so on" she would have been president today. Cant you guys think of the mental abuse this woman and her daughter went through? For what? To protect the Clinton name. Please that dosen't show 1. she respects herself 2. not a tough woman to deal with that kind of problems
Talking about presidential runner ups. The GOP is the one that is convincing me the most like people like Rommney,Guiliani( idk if he can get the GOP vote for his social views) and one of the guys that I want him to step up to the ring is Dr. Gingrich
It saddens me that the American people have forgotten that there is still OBL, that according to him he got permission from god to kill 10m Americans, and the threat that terrorist groups face not only to America and to the rest of the world.
Do we have to get attacked again to get this through our heads? What pisses me off is that the Dems are politicizing the war... Political parties dont lose wars, nations lose wars.
If the Dem party all they can do is come out and present the solution to pull out i doubt that they can win the next pres elections. I want to get this clear I am not a Rep nor a Dem but an American that wants the best for this nation.
If we out like the Spanish did after they got attacked than I must say we must be prepare when our enemy brings the war here to our soil. |
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| CrazyCanadian |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Republican Congressman Ron Paul. If I vote, that's who I'm voting for.
He's the only sane, real conservative, non-prowar candidate we have. Not only is he agiast the Patriot Act & Military Commissions Act and for maintaining/protecting our civil liberties, |
I find it hard to take seriously anyone that talks about protecting civil liberties when they deny hate crime protection to a minority group. Sounds like rhetoric, just like what we have with the Bush white house today. Bashing minorities for political gain is a dirty trick that has been used far too many times ( ex. Adolf Hitler bashing Jews, the Republican Party bashing gays ) and unfortunately still works. As for gays being a threat to American families, I would be certain that more families were destroyed in the past 2 years by the horrible response to hurricane Katrina, medical bankruptsy, and the failed war on crystal meth, than will ever be destroyed by gay people. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
The Dems dont have anything... If Obama/Clinton/Gore the best they can come up with I got to tell you... WE ARE IN DEEP !!!! |
And you disagree with Obama because, why again?
| quote: | | Clinton would have been president today if she would have sent Bill to hell after he disgraced the presidential office with the Monica scandal.. She knew he was guilty and still defended and stood by his side and came to his defense along with her daughter. |
Wow. How about that - a person who claims he's neither a Rep or a Dem. bringing up the whole blowjob scandal, once again, and believingthat among all things that have occurred with this ing Administration over the past years, among all things that this Administration has successfully gotten us deep into and disgraced the out of us as well as completely pissed all over the Constitution,
.....well hell, we've got big problems if Hillary wants to get in because she didn't run from her cheating husband who lied about his affair that a Republican hack spent somewhere around $85 million of our taxpayer dollars investigating, even though his actual investigation was supposed to be on that whole Whitewater thingy that ended him with jack . Because THAT event, in lieu of everything else we are seeing, in lieu of a president who sits at 28% approval:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117...tics_primary_hs
Twenty-ing-Eight percent approval (approaching Nixonian levels fast), yes I can see how that whole blowjob affair really has a morality light shine down on it hard.
Great point.
| quote: | | If she would have said " this man in not worth anything and is a disgrace and so on" she would have been president today. Cant you guys think of the mental abuse this woman and her daughter went through? |
I can think of about 3,334 other families who might be going through a bit more mental abuse than our dear Hillary, let alone the tens of thousands of wounded and disabled soldiers, and the tens of thousands diagnosed with at least one mental trauma/disorder of their own.
| quote: | | For what? To protect the Clinton name. Please that dosen't show 1. she respects herself 2. not a tough woman to deal with that kind of problems |
Yes, I can think of a coupla other folks that don't deal with big problems themselves. Quick trivia game for ya:
1. Who pussied out of signing up to fight in Vietnam, and also has an unaccounted for gap in National Guard service on top of it?
2. Who opted out of a war 5 times because "I had other priorities", you know, bigger priorities than fighting for the very cause you supposedly believe in and want others to fight in your place instead?
| quote: | | The GOP is the one that is convincing me the most like people like Rommney |
You mean the guy who was a wonderful librul before he turned into such a terrific "conservative"? Hasn't he flip-flopped more times than Kerry?
| quote: | | Guiliani( idk if he can get the GOP vote for his social views) |
Oh yeah, the same guy who couldn't even get his city's own firefighters to endorse him. The same guy who's family values include a coupla affairs of his own.
I'm sorry, you were saying something about the Clintons?
| quote: | | and one of the guys that I want him to step up to the ring is Dr. Gingrich |
Ahh yes, I like his values too. Putting his nutbag neocon views aside for a moment, I think his family values of multiple affairs, including serving divorce papers to his ex-wife while she was in a hospital bed was especially revealing of those good, sturdy conservative "values".
I'm sorry, you were saying something about the Clintons earlier?
| quote: | | It saddens me that the American people have forgotten that there is still OBL, that according to him he got permission from god to kill 10m Americans, and the threat that terrorist groups face not only to America and to the rest of the world. |
Hmmm, that must be why Bush pulled out our troops and intelligence from Tora Bora and handed the duty of hunting down OBL to corrupt Afghan warlords and diverted those troops to fight a hapless dictator that had nothing to do with 9/11, had no WMDs, and no operational connections whatsoever to OBL and al Qaeda.
That must be why our dear fearless leader said, "I truly am not that concerned about him (bin Laden).":
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20020313-8.html
And why his Faux News/Weekly Standard bitch Fred Barnes said, "bin Laden doesn’t fit with the administration’s strategy for combating terrorism."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conte...12/696wnfcp.asp
Yes, I can see how the ignorant American people have seemingly forgotten about him. We need another strong leader like the one we have now to help us continue to be "not that concerned about him."
| quote: | | Do we have to get attacked again to get this through our heads? |
Have you asked your dear president that question? Perhaps we can find out why we're bogged down in Iraq instead of fighting the true enemy that you mentioned?
| quote: | | What pisses me off is that the Dems are politicizing the war... |
Hi Pot, meet Kettle.
Your ing idiot president has been politicizing this war from day 1. Christ, Rove and crew have politicized EVERYTHING. How many times did we hear of threats about terrorist attacks by this Administration if someone votes for the Democrats? And that's but one of a myriad of examples.
And now the Democrats are doing exactly what they said they will do when they took over Congress, doing exactly what the majority of the American public wants them to do, doing exactly what senior military officials want them to do, doing exactly what the Bush-appointed Iraq Study Group want them to do, but in doing so they are now "politicizing the war?"
Yeah, makes perfect sense, chief.
| quote: | | Political parties dont lose wars, nations lose wars. |
You might be right, but the American people also want a change. We wanted to stop fighting a losing battle, and wanted to open up more channels to diplomacy while standing down the military strategy instead. We wanted a change, and the Dems are bringing that change.
This war was already lost, and you'll have to come to grips with that some day. Moreover, it was lost not because of the Dems. - it was lost because this president and his Administration manipulated intelligence to get us there (and willfully ignored any counterintelligence against their conclusions already made), they had too few troops for post-war operations, had absolutely NO PLAN for a post-war Iraq in the first place, completely upended the Iraqi government infrastructure without a moment's thought as to what that might do, ignored any neighboring countries that should have played a larger role in the rebuilding process and diplomacy, ignored anyone who told them a civil war was ineviteable with the course of actions they were going to take, and had an overall complete lack of understanding of the region, culture, and religious sects that have been there for centuries.
| quote: | | If the Dem party all they can do is come out and present the solution to pull out i doubt that they can win the next pres elections. |
With the majority of Americans behind them, with the presidential approval tanking at 28%, don't be offended if they have a wee hard time listening to your advice.
| quote: | | I want to get this clear I am not a Rep nor a Dem but an American that wants the best for this nation. |
Could have fooled me.
| quote: | | If we out like the Spanish did after they got attacked than I must say we must be prepare when our enemy brings the war here to our soil. |
Because that's exactly what the Iraqi insurgents, both Sunni and Shiites, have in mind, don't they? They just can't wait to attack New York, right?
Just out of curiousity, what evidence has compelled you to reach such a silly assertion? |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by spiflicated
pick one |
right, thats what i thought.:rolleyes:
your logic is about as empty as Biden's suit. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by spiflicated
Yes, I have, and I think they are appalling. However, this is the first time you mentioned them in this thread. |
I think something like that should be on everyone's mind while voting, repealing those unconstitutional bills/legislation. So what do you not understand then?
| quote: | Originally posted by spiflicated
I will restate my point for you, as you seem to be mentally challenged at times. I understand that you think a state acknowledged relationship is trivial. You need to understand that there are many people that trivialize the civil liberties that you care about. When people stop trying to defend all civil rights, that's a sad day for our country |
Listen, if the contituion wasn't being torn to shreds and we weren't slowly... no, more like rapidly moving towards a totalitarian state, things would be very different now wouldn't they? Assuming you're a gay man, would you rather live in a police state with reduced civil liberties for everyone even though your marriage/civil union is constituionaly recognized, or in a republic where you still have tons of civil liberties that aren't lost, minus the stuff Jake mentioned ofcourse. Do the math, and take a few lessons from history. Why is that so hard to understand? And it's not like gay right are something far in the future to struggle for, the way I see it, it's something that's bound to happen sooner or later.
| quote: | Originally posted by spiflicated
You're a ing idiot if you think Ron Paul is a Republican. He's a ing Libertarian you moron. |
I know he's a libertarian but he's part of the Republican party, which would make him a Republican. [EDIT] Actually you're right, he WAS in the Republican party, but not anymore.
| quote: | Originally posted by spiflicated
I didn't even discuss morally right or not... again, you went off on a tangent and clearly cannot read at an adult level. My point is that everyone's civil rights need to be protected. Your civil rights are no more important than Jake Benson's. |
I didn't say his civil liberties were less important than mine or anyone else's.
[EDIT] That wasn't exactly a tangent, I was just addressing the lame comment you made.
Does that help getting my point across? |
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| shaolin_Z |
So do you really think these are trivial issues trumped by a much bigger issue of "gay rights?"
| quote: | Debt and Taxes
Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.
Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy – that means all of us.
Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending.
But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future – and yours.
In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply – making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”
Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending.
We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.
American Independence and Sovereignty
So called free trade deals and world governmental organizations like the International Criminal Court (ICC), NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA are a threat to our
independence as a nation. They transfer power from our government
to unelected foreign elites.
The ICC wants to try our soldiers as war criminals. Both the WTO and CAFTA could force Americans to get a doctor’s prescription to take herbs and vitamins. Alternative treatments could be banned.
The WTO has forced Congress to change our laws, yet we still face trade wars. Today, France is threatening to have U.S. goods taxed throughout Europe. If anything, the WTO makes trade relations worse by giving foreign competitors a new way to attack U.S. jobs.
NAFTA’s superhighway is just one part of a plan to erase the borders between the U.S. and Mexico, called the North American Union. This spawn of powerful special interests, would create a single nation out of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, with a new unelected bureaucracy and money system. Forget about controlling immigration under this scheme.
And a free America, with limited, constitutional government, would be gone forever.
Let’s not forget the UN. It wants to impose a direct tax on us. I successfully fought this move in Congress last year, but if we are going to stop ongoing attempts of this world government body to tax us, we will need leadership from the White House.
We must withdraw from any organizations and trade deals that infringe upon the freedom and independence of the United States of America.
War and Foreign Policy
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.
Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft of our young men and women.
We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing America and bring the troops home. No war should ever be fought without a declaration of war voted upon by the Congress, as required by the Constitution.
Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.
Too often we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised. Too often we have supported those who turn on us, like the Kosovars who aid Islamic terrorists, or the Afghan jihads themselves, and their friend Osama bin Laden. We armed and trained them, and now we’re paying the price.
At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.
Border Security and Immigration Reform
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
- Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
- No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
- End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
- Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
Privacy and Personal Liberty
The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens’ personal matters.
We must stop the move toward a national ID card system. All states are preparing to issue new driver’s licenses embedded with “standard identifier” data – a national ID. A national ID with new tracking technologies means we’re heading into an Orwellian world of no privacy. I voted against the Real ID Act in March of 2005.
To date, the privacy focus has been on identity theft. It was Congress
that created this danger by mandating use of the standard identifier (currently your SSN) in the private sector. For example, banks use SSNs as customer account identifiers because the government requires it.
We must also protect medical privacy. Right now, you’re vulnerable. Under so-called "medical privacy protection" rules, insurance companies and other entities have access to your personal medical information.
Financial privacy? Right now depositing $10,000 in your local bank will generate a “suspicious activity report” to the federal government.
And then there’s the so-called Patriot Act. As originally proposed,
- Expanded the federal government's ability to use wiretaps without judicial oversight;
- Allowed nationwide search warrants non-specific to any given location, nor subject to any local judicial oversight;
- Made it far easier for the government to monitor private internet usage;
- Authorized “sneak and peek” warrants enabling federal authorities to search a person’s home, office, or personal property without that person’s knowledge; and
- Required libraries and bookstores to turn over records of books read by their patrons.
I have fought this fight for many years. I sponsored a bill to overturn the Patriot Act and have won some victories, but today the threat to your liberty and privacy is very real. We need leadership at the top that will prevent Washington from centralizing power and private data about our lives.
Property Rights and Eminent Domain
We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.
Our country’s founders would roll over in their graves if they saw the takings clause in the Fifth Amendment used to justify booting people out of their homes for the profit of private developers and tax-hungry local governments. The Supreme Court’s Kelo decision said government power could be used to condemn private homes and churches to benefit a huge pharmaceutical corporation and a large property developer.
Today, we face a new threat of widespread eminent domain actions as a result of powerful interests who want to build a NAFTA superhighway through the United States from Mexico to Canada.
We also face another danger in regulatory takings: Through excess regulation, governments deprive property owners of significant value and use of their properties – all without paying “just compensation.”
Property rights are the foundation of all rights in a free society. Without the right to own a printing press, for example, freedom of the press becomes meaningless. The next president must get federal agencies out of these schemes to deny property owners their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property. |
What an aweful candidate. Let's just vote for more corporate shills. |
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| spiflicated |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
I think something like that should be on everyone's mind while voting, repealing those unconstitutional bills/legislation. So what do you not understand then? |
I understand, just think that all arguments should be explicit and not make assumptions.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Listen, if the contituion wasn't being torn to shreds and we weren't slowly... no, more like rapidly moving towards a totalitarian state, things would be very different now wouldn't they? Assuming you're a gay man, would you rather live in a police state with reduced civil liberties for everyone even though your marriage/civil union is constituionaly recognized, or in a republic where you still have tons of civil liberties that aren't lost, minus the stuff Jake mentioned ofcourse. Do the math, and take a few lessons from history. Why is that so hard to understand? And it's not like gay right are something far in the future to struggle for, the way I see it, it's something that's bound to happen sooner or later. |
Your point is not difficult to understand, you are okay with choosing certain rights over others. I am one of those people that want all of my rights I want to see that everyone else has all the rights that should be afforded to them, which need to be both protected and fought for politically and in the courts. |
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| Kapedan |
| I agree with you Opus. I think that Clinton is the best candidate for her party. Who do you live in this upcoming election? Which democratic duo? |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kapedan
I agree with you Opus. I think that Clinton is the best candidate for her party. Who do you live in this upcoming election? Which democratic duo? |
Well I don't recall saying or implying that Clinton is the best candidate. I was simply trying to put the former President's affair in full context to the current mess of a President we have today. In fact most here know that Clinton is the last Dem. on my list of those I'd support.
As for my current picks, I have no frontrunner, but my initial leanings are in the Edwards or Obama camp. I always hoped that Clark would come back in the race, but I think he saw his chances were slim and has stuck to the sidelines. As for a Republican, it would have to be someone like Hagel in order to get my attention. |
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| LatinLover |
MisterOpus1,
You failed to understand the logic behind my statement :rolleyes: (dosen't surprise me) Moving on... you come up and compare the Clinton scandal with Bush's decision to go into war with Iraq :haha: :haha:
Okay... The clinton scandal involved a scandal that basically froze presidential operations nationally and internationally. He disgraced office, came up and lied to the American people that nothing happened between Monica( i dont know about you but i dont like being lied too) and basically concentrated all congregational efforts to get to the bottom line. Dont you think if we would have concentrated all that energy to hunt down OBL during his presidential term would have been more constructive? :rolleyes: If you think that the white house is like being in hollywood surrounded by sex scandals you should consider in moving into Beverly hills to see whos cheating on who.
Now with Bush :haha: This is what I have to say... sometimes our leaders must take unpopular decisions for the best of our country. If you think that taking on with popular decisions is doing the right thing you must be stoned or stupid :rolleyes: First of all our president acted on bad intelligence. We have had the same intelligence that MI6 and russian intel it was "Slam Dunk" from all 3 nations.
Okay... I love your bashing on the GOP on their divorces... awww I guess that getting divorced is an awful sin... its better to come up in public and just accept the fact that your husband or wife has had an affair and just forgive him and not only that but come out and defend him... awww that is the moral thing to do!
You say that America has lost the war... it saddens me :( Hey lets just follow the Dem, lets throw the towel, lets go save the penguins up north and increase taxes. And Iraq lets just forget about it and let terrorist group take over and use the oil refineries so they can fund their operations against America. |
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| MrSquirrel |
| quote: | Originally posted by LatinLover
MisterOpus1,
You failed to understand the logic behind my statement :rolleyes: (dosen't surprise me) Moving on... you come up and compare the Clinton scandal with Bush's decision to go into war with Iraq :haha: :haha:
Okay... The clinton scandal involved a scandal that basically froze presidential operations nationally and internationally. He disgraced office, came up and lied to the American people that nothing happened between Monica( i dont know about you but i dont like being lied too) and basically concentrated all congregational efforts to get to the bottom line. Dont you think if we would have concentrated all that energy to hunt down OBL during his presidential term would have been more constructive? :rolleyes: If you think that the white house is like being in hollywood surrounded by sex scandals you should consider in moving into Beverly hills to see whos cheating on who.
Now with Bush :haha: This is what I have to say... sometimes our leaders must take unpopular decisions for the best of our country. If you think that taking on with popular decisions is doing the right thing you must be stoned or stupid :rolleyes: First of all our president acted on bad intelligence. We have had the same intelligence that MI6 and russian intel it was "Slam Dunk" from all 3 nations.
Okay... I love your bashing on the GOP on their divorces... awww I guess that getting divorced is an awful sin... its better to come up in public and just accept the fact that your husband or wife has had an affair and just forgive him and not only that but come out and defend him... awww that is the moral thing to do!
You say that America has lost the war... it saddens me :( Hey lets just follow the Dem, lets throw the towel, lets go save the penguins up north and increase taxes. And Iraq lets just forget about it and let terrorist group take over and use the oil refineries so they can fund their operations against America. |
If you truly believe that openly defrauding the American taxpayers by starting a war that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives, over a trillion dollars, and totally destabilized a region of the world that was already on shaky ground is somehow less disgraceful than lying about having sex with an ugly fat chick, then I cannot help but feel sorry for you.
I disliked Bill Clinton almost as much as I dislike Bush. But the whole idea of impeaching someone for lying about something in a civil lawsuit that the supreme court had to agree was even allowable; and then to be told he was being impeached for perjury in regards to a statement he made that was contradicted by personal wire taps that would have been inadmissable in any court of law; all of this done at the end of a 4 year long investigation that had turned up absolutely nothing worth prosecuting anyone over in court was a sick perversion of the constitutional process.
But it did its job, it made the whole idea of beginning impeachment proceedings so unpalatable to the American people that, today, a president can do things that even Nixon would not have thought of doing and know that he will never have to pay the constitutional price for his high crimes and misdemeanors.
MrS |
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