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Xone 3d and Ableton > everything else?
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| nousplacidus |
If all I wanted to do was mix and I had a laptop I would get the 3d and Ableton and never look back. (edit: assuming I had the cash lying around :D)
Ableton has too much to offer as far as mixing/live production is concerned not to make use of it in that arena.
Does anyone think I'm crazy?
I love hip hop and turntablism so its not really an option for me, but what is everyone else's opinion on the state of pure mixing with the 900 lb Ableton looming in the future?
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| Ryan0751 |
If ALL you are looking to do is mix, using Ableton is boring. It just is.
Remixing on the fly, throwing in your own loops and remixes, that's one thing. But standard DJ'ing with it is just horribly boring.
Also, the 3D has a lot of functionality if all you are looking for is a MIDI controller.
The new 2D/1D combo would make more sense. |
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| Zild |
crossfading with my > everything else
/thread |
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| Alex |
The Xone:3D is overrated.
The fact that it's a midiclock is cool, the jogwheels are cool, but the MIDI control aspect is teh lame.
Send me a PM sometime and tell me more about what you intend to really do and I can try to dream up an affordable set up for you, since the Xone:3D is a cash cow that is beyond unessecary, not to mention for the most part, NOT worth it. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
using Ableton is boring. |
Why would you say that? |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
If ALL you are looking to do is mix, using Ableton is boring. It just is.
Remixing on the fly, throwing in your own loops and remixes, that's one thing. But standard DJ'ing with it is just horribly boring.
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It's boring if you're not putting effort into it. If you decide to go the other way (read: TRY ) the possibilities are endless.
I still dont understand why we're still using CDJs. IMO Ableton is the platform to use now, it offers the most creative control, it lets you play tracks the way YOU want to play them and not how they would normally dictate the mix...
If only the link between ableton and a mixer/controller would be solved. |
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| nousplacidus |
I think vanilla mixing with Ableton is boring as crap too, but thats the very point of my post. Because its so damn easy, it lets you do other crazy stuff during your epic 20 minute trance transition.
On the other side of the coin If I see you using a laptop there better be some fireworks.
Also, it seems to me that if you're just mixing using CDJs would be a waste unless you need to put you're hands on something, as Clovis pointed out above. Maybe "waste" is too strong a word for it.
And finally....
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
crossfading with my > everything else
/thread |
If we hung out could you teach me how to be a bad ass? :o |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | | I still dont understand why we're still using CDJs. |
I get into my mixes so much more when I play on cdjs rather than ableton. being a dude on a laptop at a banging house party is just lame sometimes and i find it hard to get into it and just close my eyes and enjoy the music. theoretically I would be much better gigging with ableton since I know how to use it fairly well and have a lot of practice with it in that respect. but it's simply not as fun
but god knows how much i hate burning cds |
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| Ryan0751 |
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and what it all means for DJ'ing...
Ok SURE the possiblities with Ableton are endless... but what are you going to do to tracks that are already highly produced and have a lot of musical elements already in there (such as Trance, House, etc?).
You might loop an intro/outro, throw some effects in there here and there, layer in an a capella... but those are all things you can do with decks.
Even Sasha has stated that he started off doing way to much to tracks and it just ended up ruining the set. He says he now just lets the tracks (which very talented producers spent a lot of time making) speak for themselves.
Everyone on earth seems to be jumping on Jonathon Peters for his recent Ableton switch, and how he spends so much time ing with tracks that it ends up sounding like ass.
You really have to look at YOUR skills as a producer before you take the big leap. Obviously have fun and use what you like, but MOST DJ's aren't really talented enough to pull it off. I'm sorry but that's the truth. Spend you time between tracks looking for THE NEXT TRACK. It's about the music, not the technical skills.
If you are like James Zabiella and are EXTREMELY talented, AND you play a genre like techno or minimal where you can really play around and come up with something unique, than that's great.
I think Ableton is a GREAT program. And every DJ, whether they intend to DJ with it or not, should at least have exposure as to what you can do with it. It's fantastic for re-edits and remixes, and it makes a great effects unit and a very fancy sampler when combined with a DJ setup.
What I don't like is all the bandwagon jumping. Ableton is a production tool that was adapted for DJ'ing. Why is everyone ready to "settle" with it as "the new standard"? There are clearly a lot of things that DJ's complain about when trying to use it in a live environment: Warping takes too much time (why isn't the auto-warp better on long tracks?), you can't view multiple waveforms at once, etc.
And don't forget about the controllers... they are all over the place. I don't know why people hate on the 3D. Sure it's super-expensive, but it's built like a QUALITY piece of gear. Would you want to mix on an all plastic mixer (even if it sounded good)? Why should have have to mix on a crappy MIDI controller?
It think in time someone will take the benefits of Ableton and combine them with a DJ friendly approach to come up with something that is much more useful all around. We are already seeing a multitude of applications coming around that let you do "ableton-like" things. Look at Torq for example... perfect looping, sampler, syncing (which almost works)... with multiple deck support (more than 2) you suddenly can begin to do remixing on the fly, layering, etc with a DJ friendly application.
As for CD's and why they are still popular...
Well CD's never really WERE popular in the traditional "go to the store and buy a CD with house music on it" sense. CDJ's obviously only took over with the advent of digital downloads. Why do they still work?
1. Hardware players - These are proven and very stable, and in a typical club environment you'll probably have 3 CDJ's to work with. If one dies in a set, the other 2 will likely still work. They are layed out well, and have a consistent interface, even between brands and models.
2. Ubiquitous - Digital formats are currently all over the place. USB drives, flash memory, etc. CD's are standardized. Plus the interface is consistent... everyone know's how to use and play with them. You can just walking into a club with your headphones and case of CD's and play. If you are playing after another DJ (or before), no need to setup gear and tear it down. Simple and reliable.
3. Cheap and disposable - Sure burning CD's is a pain in the ass, but at least what you are carrying around is a bunch of cheap CD's. If you lose or break one, re-burn it when you get home. If you had a hardrive with all your music on it and it crashed at a gig, you are out of luck.
So while I do think digital is the future (actually, it's the present), the hardware and interfaces haven't caught up yet to do everything in software.
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
It's boring if you're not putting effort into it. If you decide to go the other way (read: TRY ) the possibilities are endless.
I still dont understand why we're still using CDJs. IMO Ableton is the platform to use now, it offers the most creative control, it lets you play tracks the way YOU want to play them and not how they would normally dictate the mix...
If only the link between ableton and a mixer/controller would be solved. |
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| hooknife |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Why would you say that? |
Because he does not konw how to use it.
Ableton kicks ass! |
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| SPAWNmaster |
Glad you could share your opinion Ryan, that's a great post.
My personal take is that Ableton is amazing for compilations and really creating true works of art. Personally, I use it for my weekly radio show as well as for compilation mixes, but for live shows I use CDJ's as they're more performance oriented (imho). There's something more personal about them and its easier to transmit style through movements. The performance aspect is in the physical domain for cdj's as opposed to the digital domain on Ableton. Ofcourse style and the fun-factor are more geared toward a dj-centric view rather than just speaking "about the music" in general which is really what's all about...what comes out of the speakers.
I guess it can go either way...these are my thoughts though. |
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| Ryan0751 |
Actually I know it quite well, but thanks for playing.
Can you post a mix you did in ableton that's shows off your skill with it?
| quote: | Originally posted by hooknife
Because he does not konw how to use it.
Ableton kicks ass! |
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