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When does trance become house?
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| AgentStarchild |
So I've made some tracks that I think might be house rather than trance. I don't really listen to house though. They've got a walking bass-line as opposed to a repeated single note. The voices are trance-like but the melodies were kind of made by improvising on sort of a funk groove as opposed to programming in the way I do with trance.
I just don't want to look like an idiot for calling a song something that it's not.
I know there are millions of definitions as to what qualifies as house and what qualifies as trance. I always thought of house as being more sample/DJ oriented and trance as being more producer/synth oriented. I just wanted to see what people thought about what makes house house and what makes trance trance, why one is good and the other sucks, why it doesn't matter, etc. Just curious really.
Peace, Agent Starchild |
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| DigiNut |
If it's not funky, it's not house. If you don't know whether or not it's funky, it's definitely not house.
Trance does not "become" house, no matter how much you slow it down. Basslines that don't repeat the same note over and over again do not imply house music - they could be done just as easily in trance or breaks or techno or d'n'b, it's just that the awful repetitive machine-gun bass in trance is easy and a lot of (notice I didn't say all) trance producers don't like to be challenged.
House has very little to do with samples, either. In the disco house days it was all samples, but not anymore.
If you don't listen to house - it's probably not house. It's very hard to produce something in a genre you're unfamiliar with by sheer coincidence. |
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| AgentStarchild |
| I think what I've got is funky. I don't listen to house itself but I get George Clinton stuck in my head all the time so sometimes the funk enters my music-making. Sometimes when I sit down to make music, I feel funky instead of "ravey." I figured funk was the main factor in distinguishing trance from house but I wasn't sure. Thanks. I'll probably call it house until someone kicks my a$$. Peace, Agent Starchild |
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| Eldritch |
| Why don't you just post a sample? |
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| kitphillips |
| yeah post a sample, I did read somewhere around here that the difference between trance and house was that house uses a 1 bar drum loop, trance just seems to flow on. Techno uses a half bar (which would explain why i dont't like a lot of techno). Forget who posted that but I'd never thought of it that way before... |
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| thecYrus |
well, the gap between trance and house (electro) can be very small sometimes. just check some releases on ferry's flashover label.
but anyway i give it up to fit a track into a genre. it just not possible anymore.. |
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| Beat Blog |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
If it's not funky, it's not house. If you don't know whether or not it's funky, it's definitely not house. |
Oh Reginald...I disagree!
I don't think house needs to be funky. That's a pretty narrow definition for a whole genres. It's like saying all trance songs use hi-hats, and if a song doesn't have hi-hats, it's not trance.
Starchild, I'm surprised that someone who produces has serious trouble differentiating between these two. Trance and house are pretty far apart in terms of sound, in my opinion.
Listen to some house and trance samples on beatport (not the most accurate guide, but good enough), so you can learn to differentiate.
Otherwise just post up a sample from your track, I'd love to hear your work.
| quote: | Originally posted by thecYrus
well, the gap between trance and house (electro) can be very small sometimes. just check some releases on ferry's flashover label.
but anyway i give it up to fit a track into a genre. it just not possible anymore.. |
I'm gonna have to disagree again. I think the gap is massive.
What did you mean when you said "house (electro)"? As in "electro-house"?, or are you implying that house and electro are basically the same thing? :conf: |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
If it's not funky, it's not house. If you don't know whether or not it's funky, it's definitely not house.
Trance does not "become" house, no matter how much you slow it down. Basslines that don't repeat the same note over and over again do not imply house music - they could be done just as easily in trance or breaks or techno or d'n'b, it's just that the awful repetitive machine-gun bass in trance is easy and a lot of (notice I didn't say all) trance producers don't like to be challenged.
House has very little to do with samples, either. In the disco house days it was all samples, but not anymore.
If you don't listen to house - it's probably not house. It's very hard to produce something in a genre you're unfamiliar with by sheer coincidence. |
Sorry diginut, I know you know your stuff but saying if it's not funky then it's not house is absolute nonesense. If it's not funky at all then it probably isn't funky house, but it can easily still be house.A classic example of a seminal house track is Usura - open your mind. Not funky at all but perfect example of a typical "house" track.
Also, house uses samples as much and any other genre of EDM. In fact the basis of house is still sample orientated. The only difference now (opposed to dicso days) is that house producers don't have to rely so heavily on samples, as much as they used to because of production changes (VST's, synths) etc. I would even say IMHO and personal epxerience that trance in general uses far less samples than straight up "house", which is clearly demonstrated by the use of softsynths and hard synths among TA's.
House generally has a slower BPM (110 - 125BPM?), more likely to have a funky rhythm, less likely to have the "flowing" elements you describe, uses more tribal and classic drum/baseline pattenrs (than rolling basslines for example. But it's all subjective anyway, and one man's house is another man's electro (etc.). |
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| thecYrus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
What did you mean when you said "house (electro)"? As in "electro-house"?, or are you implying that house and electro are basically the same thing? :conf: |
i just meant that if you look only at the real (original) house you have to compare it to the oldschool trance aswell. so yeah, the difference is massive. but if you gone compare subgenres of both styles you will find a lot of tracks which melt the subgenres together. so it's just about what your understanding of house really is. imho the things labeled with electro house could very well be electro trance aswell. so i don't see a big difference in this part.
but right, old trance is absolutly not the same like the old house stuff. but that was some years ago. together the direction of both genres goes more and more together.. |
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| richg101 |
| the question should be 'when does house become trance?' |
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| Chronosis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beat Blog
I think the gap is massive.
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No, it really isn't. Trance and house both have many diverse subgenres that often cross each other in definitions. In some cases, you can pretty much flip a coin deciding into which genre a track goes. I give you todays progressive house and trance for example. |
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| Sanguis Mortuum |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Sorry diginut, I know you know your stuff but saying if it's not funky then it's not house is absolute nonesense. If it's not funky at all then it probably isn't funky house, but it can easily still be house.A classic example of a seminal house track is Usura - open your mind. Not funky at all but perfect example of a typical "house" track. |
For that matter, most 'funky house' is barely 'funky' either... |
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