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Help harmonically mixing
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| Shini |
Help harmonically mixing kind of speaks for its self no? I was just hoping some of you guys could point me in the direction of some good material on how to harmonically mix, I mean how to find the key of a song and which keys go well together. understanding teh notation would also help. Thanks
note: yes, i did do a search before I asked |
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| Stu Cox |
www.harmonic-mixing.com have got a guide to using what they call the Camelot system - i.e. replacing keys with a number code, which makes it easier to know which keys work well together.
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
have got a database of tracks with their keys, plus they offer a free program called Rapid Evolution which can detect keys for you.
All good places to start :)
Personally I don't use any of them but that's because I'm stubborn and like making things hard for myself haha |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
Personally I don't use any of them but that's because I'm stubborn and like making things hard for myself haha |
How do you find the key then Stu? Do you manually find it with a keyboard or do you just go by what sounds right to you?
I only ask as I have been mixing in key for a while now and use Mixmeister to find the keys. But I have been finding that a lot of the time I am mixing tunes together which have keys that should not go together (according to the 'system'), but they sound great. |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
How do you find the key then Stu? Do you manually find it with a keyboard or do you just go by what sounds right to you? |
personally i do what sounds right and it seeming to work out... my ear remains happy most of the time... although i am debating the idea of keying my ... |
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| hooj1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
But I have been finding that a lot of the time I am mixing tunes together which have keys that should not go together (according to the 'system'), but they sound great. |
yep! thats why DJs should just stick to using their ears (if you're not tone def). according to western music theory there are many keys that 'shouldn't be mixed' which is utter bull. one of the major reasons i stopped going to music courses in school.
but yea, i feel using your ears is the best method. |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Allied Nations
personally i do what sounds right and it seeming to work out... my ear remains happy most of the time... although i am debating the idea of keying my ... |
That's good to hear coming from you - as I find your mixes pretty much spot on all the time.
Ever since I got into all this keying my tracks, I have spent too much time trying to structure mixes making sure that every tune is in the 'correct' order. And like I said earlier, I keep coming across tunes that sound great together even the their keys say otherwise. |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by hooj1
yep! thats why DJs should just stick to using their ears (if you're not tone def). |
Lol at your avatar :) |
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| Allied Nations |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
That's good to hear coming from you - as I find your mixes pretty much spot on all the time.
Ever since I got into all this keying my tracks, I have spent too much time trying to structure mixes making sure that every tune is in the 'correct' order. And like I said earlier, I keep coming across tunes that sound great together even the their keys say otherwise. |
thanks..:)
the reason you just stated is precisely the reason why im afraid to start keying |
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| Shini |
Thanks, this has been really helpful so far but does anyone know where I could get a list of 'compatible' keys?
thanks |
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| agentdansmith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shini
Thanks, this has been really helpful so far but does anyone know where I could get a list of 'compatible' keys?
thanks |
Search for Camelot Mixing System and you should find a circular image that resembles a clock - this shows you what keys are compatible with each other. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by agentdansmith
How do you find the key then Stu? Do you manually find it with a keyboard or do you just go by what sounds right to you?
I only ask as I have been mixing in key for a while now and use Mixmeister to find the keys. But I have been finding that a lot of the time I am mixing tunes together which have keys that should not go together (according to the 'system'), but they sound great. |
Programs that are going to find the key of the track via algorithm aren't going to be 100 percent correct. Not all notes of a track are going to be in one key; a track could change it's key. I find that if this is the case, MIK will detect one or the other. It doesn't seem to be able to detect multiple keys yet. And well, there are more than just minor and major scales. |
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| Nemesis44 |
The one thing I find with a lot of sites that handle keyed tracks is that they do not give the full picture.
Most sites will only state that mixing the tonic, 4th and 5th are the only way to go and anything else sounds rough. This isn't the case. To be able to understand why this isn't the case you have to understand how scales work. Just because a track has the same root note as another, does not mean that its' written using the same scales. This will in turn open up a track to other mixing possibilities.
Another thing to try for the ones of you who key music using instruments (The only way to do it in my opinion) is to work out all the chords in the track and then break them down into individual notes and you will find a lot more options with what tracks you can mix.
However for most people it's purely enough to understand that it works and not the why etc.
If you are mixing that sounds right but doesn't fit in with what the regular literature on the web says about HM, I can guarantee you that there is still a logical music theory based explaination.
Some of the posts in this thread are absolute cobblers and you should definately look into this topic in a way that suits you. Don't let anyone tell you that you should do this or that.
I have also said this before, but anytime someone says to me 'I use my ears nothing more, don't need to use anything else' they are kidding themselves as most of them will drop some real harmonic clangers without even being aware of it.
The myth of perfect pitch. Ok, so it exists but very few people have it although it can be aquired if you practice which will often happen over time if you mix harminically and/or produce music.
The draw back of having 'natural' perfect pitch is that I have found, out of the people I have worked with who have this gift/curse is that they have trouble hearing things like harmonies etc. I know it sounds pretty mad but that's what experience teaches me.
What style of music you play will also make a difference but trance is actually quite dependant on this if you want it to sound really good. If your idea of DJaying is just spinning records back to back then fine, you can get by without it, but if you want to take your DJ style to the next level and start playing using 3 decks or more you have to know this skill. Otherwise the results will sound like arse.
Stu Cox provided some really good sources of information to get you started, I strongly suggest you follow the links.
You obviously have the interest to get into this so stick with it I say and see where it takes you. Don't let people decide for you, let that decision be yours. You may well find that this will open up doors in your creativity that were previously not available to you.
Cheers
Nem |
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