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Cuts, fare hikes menace TTC Miller = Retard (pg. 7)
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by geroin
i understand, but why are we there? |
Just part of why Canada's in Afghanistan.
All facts are verifiable from open sources. (This is excerpt from an article from a blog that is to be published soon)
NATO/ISAF PROJECTS
At the national level the NATO led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) development work has ensured that:
1. Millions of girls are back in school with 400,000 new female students starting school for the first time this year;
2. Over 100,000 women benefited from micro finance loans to set up their own business;
3. Over a quarter of parliamentarians are women;
4. Over 7 million girls and boys are in school or higher education;
5. 83% of the population now has access to medical facilities, compared to 9 percent in 2004;
6. 76% of children under the age of five have been immunized against childhood diseases;
7. More than 4000 medical facilities opened since 2004;
8. Over 600 midwives were trained and deployed in every province of Afghanistan;
9. GDP growth estimates of between12-14% for the current year;
10. Government revenues increased by around 25% from 2005/06 to 2006/07;
11. Income per capita of $355, compared to $180 three years ago;
12. Afghanistan is one of the fastest growing economies in South-East Asia;
13. Over 4000 km of roads have been completed;
14. Work has begun on 20,000 new homes for Afghans returning to Kabul;
15. Over 1 billion square metres (roughly 32 km X 32 km) of mine contaminated land cleared;
16. 10 universities are operating around the country, against one (barely functioning) under the Taliban; and
17. 17,000 communities benefited from development programmes such as wells, schools, hospitals and roads through the Government’s National Solidarity Program (NSP).
Most of those projects have some, often substantial, Canadian components: money, management and personnel. Some, like (13) new roads and (17) new wells and schools, are the work-a-day projects of the Canadian soldiers in the Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) who are managing or doing the building and rebuilding using funds provided by the Canadian International Development Agency.
Further, the creation of the sorts of institutions which will make it possible for Afghans, themselves, to address their own political problems in their own ways – but free of dangerous fundamentalist propaganda – is also underway in the form of communications and information technology development which facilitates the free exchange of ideas and information:
18. 10% of Afghans now own a mobile phone, compared to 2 lines per 1000 people in 2001;
19. 150 cities across Afghanistan now have access to mobile phone networks and internet provider services; and
20. 7 national TV stations (6 private); numerous radio networks, plus a diverse and increasingly robust and professional print media are up and running.
That's 20 out of a much longer list of ISAF projects.
Do I need to list Canadian sponsored projects? Or list all the moral arguments of why we should be in Afghanistan?
Believe me. I can go on allllllll daaaaaaay :p |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by ravr
^ As oppose to the conservatives that had put kids education at risks with daily teacher strikes, esclated tensions with Natives and introduced massive cuts to social programs... |
I'm sorry, but did you just blame the Conservative party for domestic terrorism and union corruption that existed long before the Conservatives ever came into power in Ontario? And the only "escalated tensions" with "Natives" in living memory are the ones that have happened recently, under McGuinty.
| quote: | | Canada/ any nation in the world can not win an ideological war. We need to leave that country ASAP... |
Oh no? You don't consider World War II or the Cold War to be ideological wars? I think you need to reread your history books. Every war is based on either ideology or natural resources, and most wars throughout history have been the former.
What we're seeing now globally, but especially in Afghanistan, is small potatoes, especially in terms of lives lost. It's just dragging on longer because one side uses exclusively guerilla tactics and often targets civilians instead of soldiers. The only way to win such a war is persistence. Too bad that the people who are trying to do that are constantly being chipped away at by the pacifists saying we need to "leave that country ASAP". Great idea - we'll just wait for them to come here. Or did you have a 3rd option in mind, other than the non-starter of "dialogue"? |
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| ravr |
Oh Please, the conservatives specifically targeted teachers and health care workers.... As result, we got major cuts to the health system and every 2 months or so threat of teacher strikes/ class disruptions, loss of many educators/ over crowed classes. Absoulty disgusting.
| quote: | "Natives" in living memory are the ones that have happened recently, under McGuinty.
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Nothing like what happened with Dudley George under the conservatives.
| quote: | | Oh no? You don't consider World War II or the Cold War to be ideological wars? |
You can fight nations, but the war on 'terrorism' is unwinnable just like the war on drugs.
| quote: | | The only way to win such a war is persistence. |
Oh yes, the old, 'we must stay the course', with no real plan on our part.
| quote: | | we'll just wait for them to come here. |
HAHA, do you like tape record Dubya's speeches? oh, we have to fight them there instead of here lol. If you have no heard, in a recenty study, Al Quida has gotten stronger ever since the war on "terror" and they are actually recuriting people to carry out missions in the US.
Canada should not be in the business of nation building. It has never worked, it will never work. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by ravr
Canada should not be in the business of nation building. It has never worked, it will never work. |
Really?
You did know that the Marshall Plan after WW2 was essentially rebuilding of Western Europe?
Not to mention Canada has funded similar plan for Asia during the 50s?
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Oh yes, the old, 'we must stay the course', with no real plan on our part. |
Actually. Canada does have a plan.
It's called removing Taliban as a threat to security of Afghanistan and its people. It's called helping Afghan govt build and train for the capability and infrastructure to provide good government for Afghan people. |
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| ravr |
| quote: | You did know that the Marshall Plan after WW2 was essentially rebuilding of Western Europe?
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Oh, were the French and Italians cutting the heads of Americans that were giving them food? lol.
| quote: | Actually. Canada does have a plan.
It's called removing Taliban as a threat to security of Afghanistan and its people. It's |
These 'people' don't want you there... You are seen as an occupying Christian nation. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by ravr
Oh, were the French and Italians cutting the heads of Americans that were giving them food? lol. |
As if the extremist minority speak for the majority of the Afghan people
| quote: |
These 'people' don't want you there... You are seen as an occupying Christian nation. |
Again, you're listening to the minority talking.
I don't understand this. NATO and NGO groups are trying to help to better the lives of avg Afghan people. Then there are people like Taliban who are doing everything they can to make lives worse for avg Afghan people.
Would you slap away the helping hands when you need help? That's just silly |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Great idea - we'll just wait for them to come here. |
lol are you in serious?:haha: like is that really what you believe? stop living in fear kid go and live a little.:) |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by ravr
These 'people' don't want you there... You are seen as an occupying Christian nation. |
you seem to have afghanistan confused with iraq. |
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| Rook |
TORONTO..
and to me it doesnt matter what the prices are.. i still ride the ttc for a dollar..
how in the hell did we have a shot at hosting the olympics..?? |
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| Jayx1 |
| If it were up to me, id send the toronto police in to deal with the native blockades...........chilean styles... |
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| DigiNut |
Responding to the parts that EvilTree didn't already respond to...
| quote: | Originally posted by ravr
Oh Please, the conservatives specifically targeted teachers and health care workers.... As result, we got major cuts to the health system and every 2 months or so threat of teacher strikes/ class disruptions, loss of many educators/ over crowed classes. Absoulty disgusting. |
If you're talking about Mike Harris, then yes, it disrupted service for a while, and by the time the Conservatives were on their way out, things had vastly improved. There is enormous waste in the education and health care systems, and the fact that they've returned to their previous levels of service (or better) with less funding should prove it. Harris ran those systems like a proper CEO would run a business; McGuinty runs them like typical unaccountable government bureaucracies.
It always takes 3-4 years after a change in government policy for those policies to take effect. If the changes are particularly significant (like funding cuts), you will always have some level of temporary "anarchy". Unfortunately, humans aren't pre-programmed to think about long-term effects, and it's clear that you're one of the ones who doesn't think past stage one. That is exactly how politicians, including the current provincial Liberals, are able to manipulate people so easily. Make a lot of short-term campaign promises, break them, wait for people's short-term memories and fleeting media-addicted attention spans to take over, and make the same promises again just before the next election.
| quote: | | You can fight nations, but the war on 'terrorism' is unwinnable just like the war on drugs. |
Here, believe it or not, you're actually right. But as you so quaintly put it a few lines down, just because 'Dubya' says something does not necessarily mean it's accurate. We aren't really fighting a "war on terror", just a war on certain terrorism-supporting nations and specific terrorist networks. It's really a war on Islamofascism, but that obviously doesn't sound as catchy as a war on terror. That's politicking for you - I think they should call it by its real name.
| quote: | | If you have no heard, in a recenty study, Al Quida has gotten stronger ever since the war on "terror" and they are actually recuriting people to carry out missions in the US. |
In case you hadn't noticed, they'd been recruiting people to carry out missions in the US since before the Cold War, so this isn't actually news. As for them being stronger since the war started, that is completely false. I very much doubt that you could find even a single report that suggests they're stronger, but even if you could, it would be in direct conflict with the hundreds of reports that they are much, much weaker.
Of course, you might be confusing Al Qaeda with the various Shiite terrorist groups backed by Iran. Some of them have gotten stronger for reasons completely unrelated to the Iraqi/Afghanistan occupations (i.e. the constant stream of funding from Iran, and certain military bungles by Israel). Some of the Shiite groups in Iraq are also a little stronger because the Sunni groups who they're always fighting with are weaker, but that's in constant flux anyway.
Now - do you have any points to raise which haven't already been beaten to death, or are we just going to get more of your dumbass liberal one-liners and Democratic talking points? |
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| ravr |
| quote: |
Harris ran those systems like a proper CEO would run a business; McGuinty runs them like typical unaccountable government bureaucracies.
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And what is so good about that? Are you telling me you actually approve the govt running our PUBLIC education, health care, etc like a business? Go watch Sicko, and tell me if you want something like the US health care system in our country... get back to me then.
| quote: | | Here, believe it or not, you're actually right. |
I know I am.
| quote: | | We aren't really fighting a "war on terror", just a war on certain terrorism-supporting nations and specific terrorist networks. |
The US is fighting organizations which do not have central networks... as for fighting 'terrorism-'supporting nations', oh ya, brilliant, let us invade countries like Syria, topple their government, occupy the country, and than actually have insurgents fighting the occupying force and have terrorist networks come in and support thier cause... Iraq II
| quote: | | As for them being stronger since the war started, that is completely false. I very much doubt that you could find even a single report that suggests they're stronger, |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7071102443.html
The report is complied by US intelligence...
You keep invading countries, support networks for terrorists always grows... But I guess such analyzes does not go well with your dumbass conservative views...
Your position reminds of these retarded college kids:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html
Tell me why are you not serving in Afghanistan and helping our boys? Do you also have a medical reason? : D
I have derailed this thread enough. I am done |
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