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Iraq War Czar: Considers a Draft (pg. 2)
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
teat
So you're saying the beginning of the end of the military? the war in Iraq? Or the general end of the incompetent Bush administration? Or all of the above? |
I believe he's saying the war in Iraq, because now the true burden of the war is going to be felt by everyone, including the war supporters in full. We as a country have not been fully enveloped with this war as we have been in previous wars. In many respects it has been blocked out of the public eye - everything from not allowing us to see covered caskets of the fallen soldiers to refusing to allow press individuals around explosion sites. In comparison to those prior longer wars, this war has been sold more or less as one of convenience. I don't want to take away the sacrifice asked/demanded of our men and women who must fight there in our volunteer military, but aside of that harsh reality and the financial burden (which this Administration never talks about unless they need more $, and strangely I thought Iraqi oil would pay for that part now anyway?), there have been very little similarities in terms of true American sacrifice for this war. With the possibility of a draft occurring, this squares us more in line with the true sacrifice as a country in whole that must be made for a prolonged war.
And unfortunately, this situation MUST happen if the war supporters want to stay for the prolonged period of many years that they desire. The political situation in Iraq is ing crumbling with the Sunnis heading tail out of the government while al-Sadr's group pulls out as well. Of course it's a terrific time for a vacation on their part as a consequence :rolleyes:, while our men and women are dying to clear and hold ground with the Surge. The whole point of the Surge was to hold positions and quell the violence so the political situation can hopefully unfold for a stronger and more stable government. But it's clear that the government isn't truly putting forth a ing effort in even trying to do that. I contend that a timeline of our phased redeployment may help kick their collective asses in gear as they realize that our assistance and patience is not infinite, but I don't have that luxury to help our hapless Administration.
The problem with the Surge is we have only enough boots and 15 month tour stays to last us to around next April. After that some hard decisions are going to have to be made - either extend the tours or draw down the numbers. If we draw down the numbers, we're right back to where we started again prior to the Surge, and I think everyone can agree that such a situation was not ideal for the political process to go forward. So the pickle is, where the hell do we maintain enough numbers to quell the violence and allow the political process to unfold?
The only logical conclusion that our war czar has come to, and unfortunately I agree with is a draft. And Occ contends this will be unacceptable for most people, including a healthy number of war supporters. I agree with that also because I do not think even the war supporters are up for a draft to support this war. Hell I have not even heard ONCE the likes of ardent war supporters like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity (and his "Freedom" tour), anyone on Faux News, our President or anyone in his Administration - NOT ONE WAR SUPPORTER EVEN ASK their supporters and listeners to help the war cause and enlist in the military.
Has anyone heard that? Anyone ever heard slanthead Hannity ask his listeners to go support the war they are firmly behind by volunteering their lives out for that cause? Like I said, the numbers of the Surge can only last for so long - now is the perfect time to enlist so we can maintain those numbers. But Hannity or even this Administration has not asked once. Strange. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Oh yes, you of all people would know when to not believe "the hype" despite that it comes from the Iraq war czar. But hey you're probably used to lies we've received from administration officials over the past several years so I understand where you're coming from.
http://www.americanprogress.org/iss.../timeline.html/ |
wrong.
you are a victim of media manipulation and your own selective reasoning based in part of your ignorance of the workings of the DoD and myopic hatred of the war.
it's as simple as that. |
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| Sunsnail |
| But do you support a draft? |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
But do you support a draft? |
He's just another chickenhawk, he's all for the war, but won't go do extended tours. |
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| Sunsnail |
| I could've sworn he was an ex-marine |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
wrong.
you are a victim of media manipulation and your own selective reasoning based in part of your ignorance of the workings of the DoD and myopic hatred of the war.
it's as simple as that. |
I'm curious, Q., if it's possible for you to put the labeling aside for a moment and tell me what your own personal assessment of what Lute had said, combined with the unsustainable troop levels needed in Iraq in the future should the political situation remain exactly where it stands today. I fully concede that he said he is satisfied with the volunteer military we have today, but putting his statement into any given context when he says:
| quote: | | "I think it makes sense to certainly consider it," |
one cannot help but consider the possibility just as he is (and apparently this Administration as well). How else do you foresee us maintaining troop levels in Iraq given our current circumstances? |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
He's just another chickenhawk, he's all for the war, but won't go do extended tours. |
i've done my time.
joined the worlds finest submarine force in Feb '96, got out last year.
made three deployments in four years between 1999-2003.
you can suck it.
noone in there right mind would support a draft.
anyone who does only does so out of political posturing and fear mongering and has little to be concerned with the welfare of our current fighting force.
there is not going to be one because smart people know better. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
one cannot help but consider the possibility just as he is (and apparently this Administration as well). |
you're just like Occ. you hang your hat on one sentence and discount all the mitigating comments and facts.
THEY CONSIDER EVERYTHING. now put that in your hat and wear it.
| quote: | | How else do you foresee us maintaining troop levels in Iraq given our current circumstances? |
i don't see us maintaining current troop levels. not enough to support a draft at least. |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
I could've sworn he was an ex-marine |
Hence the "extended tour" in my post. Why quit, when the war is still in progress. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
Hence the "extended tour" in my post. Why quit, when the war is still in progress. |
i was in another theater fighting a war you know nothing about and i barely know my daughter.
hence, your complete irrelavence on all things military. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by venomX
Hence the "extended tour" in my post. Why quit, when the war is still in progress. |
yeah, i think statements like this are completely irrelevant and un-called for. who are you to judge anyone for their decision to leave the military? |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you're just like Occ. you hang your hat on one sentence and discount all the mitigating comments and facts. |
Interesting how you apparently left out my qualifier to the sentence before the one you quoted when I said:
| quote: | | I fully concede that he said he is satisfied with the volunteer military we have today, |
So you're incorrect in stating I am not considering the other mitigating comments and facts. However, when our war czar states that we should be considering it, given the fact that our numbers for the current Surge are not sustainable further than late spring of next year, plus the fact that enlist numbers have not exactly been stellar, plus the fact that Patreus has just recently stated that our presence in Iraq should likely remain for the next 9-10 years, how else does one interpret what he is saying in full context?
| quote: | | THEY CONSIDER EVERYTHING. now put that in your hat and wear it. |
Is it ever possible to have a worthwhile discourse with you without petty attempts at insults?
| quote: | | i don't see us maintaining current troop levels. not enough to support a draft at least. |
Thank you for answering. So we both agree that current troop levels are not sustainable (glad we finally agree on something). Alright then, what happens if peace is not attained and the political process is not any better? |
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