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Iraq War Czar: Considers a Draft (pg. 3)
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by MisterOpus1
So we both agree that current troop levels are not sustainable (glad we finally agree on something). |
no. i'm not talking about sustainability. of course the surge isn't sustainable, it was never meant to be. we are NOT going to sustain the current troop levels.
reinstating the draft is not contingent upon any of this what you are tyring to change the argument towards btw.
troop levels would have to jump by magnitudes.
| quote: | | Alright then, what happens if peace is not attained and the political process is not any better? |
all things considered, thats not an option. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
teat
So you're saying the beginning of the end of the military? the war in Iraq? Or the general end of the incompetent Bush administration? Or all of the above? |
Military commanders are finally acknowledging what many have been anticipating for some time now. An all volunteer army is not sufficient to battle a war that has been incompetently handled for 5 ongoing years. Do you think the status quo can go on in perpetuity?
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5Echo
wrong.
you are a victim of media manipulation and your own selective reasoning based in part of your ignorance of the workings of the DoD and myopic hatred of the war.
it's as simple as that.
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So support your reasoning with examples. FFS I just provided a list of quotes from administration officials dating back to 2003 about how “successful” the war in Iraq was going and how we would reach a tipping point in 3-6 months … every other month SINCE 2003. NEVER have you ever acknowledged blame for this administration’s blatant ups … at every single stage of the game you have defended every single act of incompetence and yet you have the audacity to accuse other people of being victims of media manipulation, selective reasoning, and ignorance??? Really how much do you pay the full time team of engineers that make the laugh track that follows you everywhere possible?
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no. i'm not talking about sustainability. of course the surge isn't sustainable, it was never meant to be. we are NOT going to sustain the current troop levels.
reinstating the draft is not contingent upon any of this what you are tyring to change the argument towards btw.
troop levels would have to jump by magnitudes.
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Are pre-surge troop levels sustainable? |
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| Shakka |
Pentagon disagrees
| quote: | The Pentagon sharply rejected Monday a key general's assertion that a return to the military draft has always been "an option on the table" and should be considered.
"I can tell you emphatically that there is absolutely no consideration being given to reinstituting the draft," said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman. "The all-volunteer force has surpassed all expectations of its founders."
Lieutenant General Douglas Lute, a White House deputy national security adviser, discussed the draft in a radio interview Friday in which he said military leaders were right to be concerned about the impact of repeated deployments on military morale and readiness.
Lute, who is in charge of coordinating the US war effort in Iraq, said the all-volunteer military is serving "exceedingly well" and the administration has not decided it needs to be replaced with a draft.
But he said, "I think it makes sense to certainly consider it, and I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table."
"But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another," he said in the interview with National Public Radio.
Reinstating the draft has become a virtual taboo since it was ended in 1973 near the end of the Vietnam War, and replaced with a smaller, better paid all-volunteer force.
The US military found that it preferred voluntary service to universal conscription because it drew better educated, more highly motivated recruits looking to make a career of the military.
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Maybe Lute was just pandering to NPR.:conf: |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Pentagon disagrees
Maybe Lute was just pandering to NPR.:conf: |
Yea well the Pentagon has been saying that everything was honkey dorey since 2003. I mean they said that a troop surge was completely unnecessary until Bush changed his mind and now all of a sudden it's the plan that's going to save the day. I'm not sure that they have much credibility anymore. But I suppose they'll just up the troop deployments from 15 months to 18 months to fix things and once again say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with our a ability to stay in Iraq.
Maybe Lute isn't a yes man and is telling it like it is? :conf: |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Maybe Lute isn't a yes man and is telling it like it is? :conf: |
Maybe. Who knows. Our generals have a lot of diverse opinions on various subject matter. |
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| atbell |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
impossible. just couldnt happen. there'd be a riot!
surely you dont think this is within the realm of possibility occrider? americans just wouldnt tolerate it. there'd be people like trancer-x on the run fighting guerilla wars in DC! :D |
Just like Amaericnas wouldn't tolerate violations of international human rights, or blatant invasions of soverign countries? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Maybe. Who knows. Our generals have a lot of diverse opinions on various subject matter. |
True. But isn't it interesting how ex-generals have a propensity to come forward when they are no longer under the chain of command? It's virtually unheard of for a general currently in the chain of command to come forward. So interpret Lute's response as you will.
But really, the base fact of the matter is that we're in the 5th year of a war with no appreciable results and no end in sight. If you think we're succeeding in Iraq you must be able to tell us when you think we can expect the mission to end? Or do you think we should stay there "until the job is done" regardless of costs, lives lost, or whether the job can even be done? |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
wrong.
you are a victim of media manipulation and your own selective reasoning based in part of your ignorance of the workings of the DoD and myopic hatred of the war.
it's as simple as that. |
You FOOL
after all these years you STILL defend this WAR
HAHAHHAHAHAAH... THEYRE KICKING YOUR ASS... AND THEN FEEDING IT TO YOU YANKS..
i guess youll never learn |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Maybe Lute isn't a yes man and is telling it like it is? :conf: |
maybe you haven't really listened to what exactly Lute is saying. i mean, i don't doubt you're "hearing" him but maybe you're just not "listening" to him.
maybe your notion, in the face of all the facts about our current military force, regarding a draft is selective reasoning.
maybe you like to listen to a media that caters to your fears.
you know for a guy as well versed in the history of our country fighting wars and some of the adjustments we have had to make in those wars in order to come away as succesful as we have, you really are obtuse when it comes to this one.
just leads me to believe that your superficial concern about how we are fighting the war belies the actual fact that you really don't give a damn about what happens in the greater Middle East and the consequences of letting the status quo fester as long as it doesn't affect you personally. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
You FOOL
after all these years you STILL defend this WAR
HAHAHHAHAHAAH... THEYRE KICKING YOUR ASS... AND THEN FEEDING IT TO YOU YANKS..
i guess youll never learn |
hey, whats up fukker.
just fighting the good fight. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
maybe you haven't really listened to what exactly Lute is saying. i mean, i don't doubt you're "hearing" him but maybe you're just not "listening" to him.
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Maybe I have been "hearing" him but not "listening" to him. But if I haven't been "listening" to him than the Pentagon hasn't been "listening" to him either otherwise they wouldn't "sharply reject" his assertation. So which is it? The pentagon and I are not "listening" to him or we are? Or maybe I'm also not "listening" to the Pentagon and all of this is perfectly consistent and makes sense in lala apologist land.
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maybe your notion, in the face of all the facts about our current military force, regarding a draft is selective reasoning.
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Maybe. When did you start supporting the "surge" ergo acknowledging that "stay the course" was a failure? When did the "liberals" on this forum call for a "surge" recognizing the failure of this administration's handling of the war? Who was guilty of selective reasoning?
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maybe you like to listen to a media that caters to your fears.
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Maybe you like to listen to an administration that caters to what you want to hear and has been saying that the war would reach a critical turning point in six months every other month since 2003? Maybe you don't care about accountability?
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you know for a guy as well versed in the history of our country fighting wars and some of the adjustments we have had to make in those wars in order to come away as succesful as we have, you really are obtuse when it comes to this one.
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For a guy who fails to recognize any kind of incompetance, stupidity, or faults in anything that this administration has done, particularly with the 5 year+ fiasco of Iraq, I'm perfectly fine with you calling me obtuse. You or any other 26%er. Complimented even.
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just leads me to believe that your superficial concern about how we are fighting the war belies the actual fact that you really don't give a damn about what happens in the greater Middle East and the consequences of letting the status quo fester as long as it doesn't affect you personally. |
You've never questioned or doubted the Bush administration in how they are fighting the war. Your unquestionable support for this administration only leads me to believe you don't actually give a damn about what happens to the lives of your fellow countrymen or what happens in the middle east. The only thing you care about is the preservation of the Bush administration at the expense of the lives of our soldiers.
Btw, I'm not adversely effected by the Bush administration's policies. Reductions in the progressive income tax helps me, I don't plan on having kids so I could care less about the deficit and passing on costs to my children, and I don't have to worry about the dissolution of social security or medicare because we're choosing to priortize fiscal irresponsiblity with respect to the war and pork. The ONLY thing that I have to worry about is terrorism from living in NY or London and family in DC so why don't you tell me why the I wouldn't be more concerned about the consequences of the up that this administration has caused in the middle east than someone like you who lives in freaking Hawaii?? Yea you tell me who has more to lose with "emboldening" the terrorists smart guy. |
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