Here's Congressman Dennis Kucinich on the House Floor (via C-Span)
reading the Articles of Impeachment against Vice President Richard B. Cheney
quote:
Impeachment Is (Sort Of) On The Table
The Nation Tue Nov 6, 4:25 PM ET
The Nation -- The move by Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich to open a House debate on the question of whether to impeach Vice President Cheney turned into a imbroglio for the Democratic leadership of the chamber Tuesday as mischievous Republicans joined dozens of Democrats in rejecting a move to table the resolution.
Kucinich had been thwarted in his efforts to get the House Judiciary Committee to take up the proposal to hold the vice president to account for lying to Congress and the U.S. public in order to enter into a war in Iraq, and for trying to mislead again in order to start a war with Iran. So he used a privileged resolution to bring the impeachment question up before the full House.
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, then moved to table Kucinich's resolution. "Impeachment is not on our agenda. We have some major priorities. We need to focus on those," said Hoyer, echoing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's stance that presidential accountability is "off the table."
That should have been the end of it. But it wasn't.
A combination of Democrats who sincerely favor impeachment of Cheney band Republicans who thought that an impeachment debate would embarrass Pelosi, Hoyer and other House Democratic leaders blocked the motion to table.
Only 162 members -- 27 Republicans and 135 Democrats -- supported tabling the proposal. A total of 251 members -- 86 Democrats and 165 Republicans -- opposed it.
What followed was wrangling between Kucinich and Hoyer on whether to refer the resolution to the Judiciary Committee.
That set up more votes, as Democratic leaders continued to scramble to block Kucinich's impeachment proposal.
As of late afternoon, the voting continued, with the prospect that a limited impeachment debate might occur on the House floor. That's what Kucinich wants. That's what Hoyer is trying to avoid.
John Nichols is the author of THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson hails it as a "nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the 'heroic medicine' that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"
It will get tabled by Conyers in committee, just as the last one did this summer. But Kucinich (or any other rep for that matter) can continue to bring forward new privileged resolutions as often as he wants.
MisterOpus1
Kucinich's party whip, Steny Hoyer, tried to kill the plan (moved to table the resolution), which didn't work because the Republicans got cute and came over to defeat the table resolution in hopes to embarass the Dems. So then Hoyer set up a motion to refer the resolution to the Judiciary Committee where it passed and will die along with Kucinich's other impeachment bill.
So until I see the Democratic leadership take this seriously, I fail to see why anyone else would since it will continue to go nowhere.
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Kucinich's party whip, Steny Hoyer, tried to kill the plan (moved to table the resolution), which didn't work because the Republicans got cute and came over to defeat the table resolution in hopes to embarass the Dems. So then Hoyer set up a motion to refer the resolution to the Judiciary Committee where it passed and will die along with Kucinich's other impeachment bill.
So until I see the Democratic leadership take this seriously, I fail to see why anyone else would since it will continue to go nowhere.
I've heard that some of the Republicans are going to use this to distance themselves from Bush and Cheney.
Krypton
Plenty of stuff to impeach him over, but not the political strength.
Originally posted by Trancer-X
I've heard that some of the Republicans are going to use this to distance themselves from Bush and Cheney.
No, interestingly enough it was the most hard-core Bushies that wanted it to go to the floor. They figured that making the Democrats actually have a debate about impeachment would be very bad publicity (which it would). All you have to do is remember the 1998 congressional elections and the backlash the republicans suffered for the impeachment debate over Clinton and you can understand why Hoyer just wanted the resolution to die quietly.
I think the Dem leadership agrees with the spirit of the resolution, but know that it would be politically imprudent to pursue it.
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
I've heard that some of the Republicans are going to use this to distance themselves from Bush and Cheney.
No, as Lebezniatnikov pointed out this was not one of those issues for distancing - too much of a political opportunity to attack for the Republicans to pass up.
There may be other issues that they'll distance themselves from, to be certain, especially back home in their respective states and districts. The war is definitely one of those issues that we've been seeing them putting some space between Bush and themselves (although they'd vote with Bush without thinking twice if cornered). SCHIP, healthcare, and the economy in general are likely secondary issues. But the main distancing you'll see from Republican Congressmen to their districts at home will be/has been the war.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
I've heard that some of the Republicans are going to use this to distance themselves from Bush and Cheney.
dude get a clue.
the Repubs want this like Opus said, to put the Donk's money where their f**kin mouths are.
the Dems DO NOT want to go on record to defend what they've said in the not-so-distant past only to have what they've said in the recent past embarass the f**k out of them.
this is rich. soooooo rich:haha:
vote Kucinch;)
Q5echo
combine this farce with Donkey party f**k-up that was Mukasey's committee roll-on, this Congress is the most inept and disorganized piece of ever elected. EVER!!!!!!
MisterOpus1
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
combine this farce with Donkey party f**k-up that was Mukasey's committee roll-on, this Congress is the most inept and disorganized piece of ever elected. EVER!!!!!!
I wish I could disagree with you. I want to disagree with you.
I can't though.
This is the bi-product of that stupid ing "conventional Beltway wisdom" crap that's suckered Democrats for the past 15 years now (if not longer). Having Reid and Pelosi in along with Hoyer as the whip have not helped the Democrats find their spines at all. The approval ratings you are seeing with Congress being in the cellar are primarily because of Democratic and Independent voters being pissed as hell for the Dem. majority not doing what they promised to do a year ago.
LazFX
quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I wish I could disagree with you. I want to disagree with you.
I can't though.
This is the bi-product of that stupid ing "conventional Beltway wisdom" crap that's suckered Democrats for the past 15 years now (if not longer). Having Reid and Pelosi in along with Hoyer as the whip have not helped the Democrats find their spines at all. The approval ratings you are seeing with Congress being in the cellar are primarily because of Democratic and Independent voters being pissed as hell for the Dem. majority not doing what they promised to do a year ago.
Well stated! I might be cruel to say but I can not wait till the baby boomers fall out of power..... seriously, the saving force for the US will be Generation X. ;)
So many of us have been lied to in so many ways,,,,,I mean I was liberal as hell back in college and then turned GOP after starting a career.... and now...... :wtf:
all anyone wants is to live in peace, have a job, make a little bread, raise kids (perhaps) and be able to live out a life.... but the past few years has been a total up across the ing board and you Americans know it!
I voted for the Dems to get in there and fix this hole this current admin has turned us into....
and WTF do they do??
NOTHING!!
sorry, just a little buzzed....... ;)
also I voted GOP in the last 2 pres. elections...I am sorry
Lebezniatnikov
Yeah, I have to agree that the Democratic Congress has failed to meet expectations. It's like they are afraid to lose a fight, so they never enter one. I would have liked to see the Senate make the Republicans actually filibuster the Webb Iraq resolution - the Dems had the votes, but probably not enough to overturn a filibuster. The Republicans were quietly against a resolution that would give US troops the rest between tours of duty that was formally standard operating procedure. So why not make the Republicans defend their anti-troop position for 12 hours, or 18 hours, or 3 days? Let America soak that in.
At least there has been some good news out of Congress on the domestic front periodically. From the Times:
quote:
WASHINGTON, Nov. 6 — A majority of House Republicans joined Democrats this evening in escalating a confrontation with President Bush over federal spending as the House overrode Mr. Bush’s veto of a popular water projects measure.
House Democrats also readied a $215 billion bill to pay for health, education, labor and veterans programs despite a veto threat.
If the Senate follows suit, it would mark the first time Mr. Bush has had a veto overturned, setting the stage for the biggest clash between Congress and the White House over spending since Mr. Bush took office.
