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Paris Riots
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| Dj O'Callaghan |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7116758.stm
What the hell is going on with France? Seems like a country in chaos at the moment. Would like to hear some French opinions on this.
Sounds like a multicultural breakdown. I can understand the people who live in poverty being angry at the lack of opportunities which seem to exist. Directing anger at facilites that serve your community and the authorities solves nothing. Why whenever North African youths die in accidents involving the Police is there riots? |
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| Magnetonium |
Heck, I think that what happened in France couple years back was much worse ... but yeah, its a huge issue. This kind of happens among the kids of immigrant communities quite often in our European countries as well, take Belgium for example, Netherlands (sometimes).
I have discussed this situation in great detail on some thread before, I can dig it up if you want me to ... but I'd have to warn you, I cracked down hard on the immigrants in Europe (the ones who cause this senseless violence). I am from an immigrant family myself here in Canada, my parents fought hard to establish themselves here, and we didnt slack off and do nothing and didnt resort to street violence because we were too busy building our lives! Thats why these events in France really piss me off. Some people just sit there and do nothing and hope that the government will do everything for them. |
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| Dj O'Callaghan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Heck, I think that what happened in France couple years back was much worse ... but yeah, its a huge issue. This kind of happens among the kids of immigrant communities quite often in our European countries as well, take Belgium for example, Netherlands (sometimes).
I have discussed this situation in great detail on some thread before, I can dig it up if you want me to ... but I'd have to warn you, I cracked down hard on the immigrants in Europe (the ones who cause this senseless violence). I am from an immigrant family myself here in Canada, my parents fought hard to establish themselves here, and we didnt slack off and do nothing and didnt resort to street violence because we were too busy building our lives! Thats why these events in France really piss me off. Some people just sit there and do nothing and hope that the government will do everything for them. |
I agree in some aspects. There is two different types of immigrants hard working and lazy. The biggest excuse for the lazy ones if they think their brought over to do the native populations dirty work. If someones has the right level of experience and speak the local language to be able to do the job then they get hired for that job. It's a real piss poor excuse.
Everytime stuff like this happens is when youths die when they appear to be up to no good and the police are involved. Two riots flaring up over people dying in accidents involving the police.
Multicultral societies are brilliant. You meet lots of new people and learn a lot. When it has negatives though it gets really extreme.
Immigration aside. At the sametime though I think governments should invest in areas that suffer extreme poverty and have high crime rates. At the sametime though I don't like it when lazy people get money. |
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| d-miurge |
| I live in Paris and I can tell you that absolutely nothing is going on. There are like 150 youngsters involved in one small suburb city. The major fact is that poverty is increasing, the household confidence reachs a new low, the purchasing power doesn't rise for middle-classes. We need dramatic changes in our economic & social decisions but Sarkozy is just applying the narrowminded, demagogic programm thanks which he has been elected. I mean, 15 billions € which will go in the pocket of only 200,000 people hurts me as an economist. You can take smart measures, just like in Germany, without feeling guilty not to follow old fashioned theory. It's the same thing for the immigration issue: it's the same situation since 1979, but no measures have been taken. People involved are now from the 2nd or the 3rd generation and they still don't have in real life the same opportunities as others. It's kinda cliché to say they are waiting for welfare, now it's too low to allow people to reasonably do that. According to recent figures from our national statistic institute, only 15,000 take advantage with cupidity of the system. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan
Why whenever North African youths die in accidents involving the Police is there riots? |
Because they hate each other. They have a long past of hating each other.
Have you ever seen the film 'La Haine'? If not I suggest you watch it for two reasons: First, it is a ing awesome film and second, it'll help you understand what's goin on in Parisian suburbs
(Also, rioting with police is hardly exclusive to "North Africans" is it? I assume you know what happened in Italy a few weeks ago?) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by d-miurge
I live in Paris and I can tell you that absolutely nothing is going on. There are like 150 youngsters involved in one small suburb city. The major fact is that poverty is increasing, the household confidence reachs a new low, the purchasing power doesn't rise for middle-classes. We need dramatic changes in our economic & social decisions but Sarkozy is just applying the narrowminded, demagogic programm thanks which he has been elected. I mean, 15 billions € which will go in the pocket of only 200,000 people hurts me as an economist. You can take smart measures, just like in Germany, without feeling guilty not to follow old fashioned theory. It's the same thing for the immigration issue: it's the same situation since 1979, but no measures have been taken. People involved are now from the 2nd or the 3rd generation and they still don't have in real life the same opportunities as others. It's kinda cliché to say they are waiting for welfare, now it's too low to allow people to reasonably do that. According to recent figures from our national statistic institute, only 15,000 take advantage with cupidity of the system. |
As well as watching La Haine read this for an explanation! Well said |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan
I agree in some aspects. There is two different types of immigrants hard working and lazy. |
Yea and in our country the hard working immigrants would be the Eastern Europeans and the lazy immigrants would be the Anglo Saxons... |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Yea and in our country the hard working immigrants would be the Eastern Europeans and the lazy immigrants would be the Anglo Saxons... |
Thanks ;-) :o we work hard. Good luck finding homeless/rioting people of Eastern European descent, its so rare it just doesnt even sound right ... here in Canada we have some homeless people, its just pretty much none of them are immigrants ... mostly are Canadian-born, second or third generation people. |
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| Alex |
Immigrants in the US tend to assimilate much quicker/better than in European countries, or so the experts think.
That's why despite the blatant racism in the US sometimes, millions of people go there to live out their lives.
In France/UK etc, (apparently) some immigrants simply do not blend into the culture whatsoever, (not saying they have to) but it seems to work against them in many ways and this is clearly one of them.
If there are foreign/immigrant students taking part in those riots, (imo) they should have their visas revoked and be sent home. Civil disobedience is still disobedience :p Same goes with foreigners on working visas/other temporary visas. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alex
Immigrants in the US tend to assimilate much quicker/better than in European countries, or so the experts think.
That's why despite the blatant racism in the US sometimes, millions of people go there to live out their lives.
In France/UK etc, (apparently) some immigrants simply do not blend into the culture whatsoever, (not saying they have to) but it seems to work against them in many ways and this is clearly one of them.
If there are foreign/immigrant students taking part in those riots, (imo) they should have their visas revoked and be sent home. Civil disobedience is still disobedience :p Same goes with foreigners on working visas/other temporary visas. |
They're French |
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| venomX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Thanks ;-) :o we work hard. Good luck finding homeless/rioting people of Eastern European descent, its so rare it just doesnt even sound right ... here in Canada we have some homeless people, its just pretty much none of them are immigrants ... mostly are Canadian-born, second or third generation people. |
It might be slightly cliche, but eastern europeans are white. African immigrants in france are, you guessed it, black. There is still plenty of racism going on around the world, and you can see it in all 'developed' countries where the black population is always somehow worse off than the general white population. It is sad that even though it is obvious something is wrong and the black population of most country are getting shafted with labour intensive jobs, low wages and are stuck living in some of the worse areas in those countries, people don't stop to think that there might still be a bias against them out there.
Watch the film George recommended, if it accurately portrays what happens to black people in France (and I believe it does), I would be amazed if they weren't rioting. |
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