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Producers trying to DJ
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| Alex |
Is it just me, or has the DJ scene been flooded with producers who (justifiably) want a piece of the DJ fame/glory action?
It seems to be a trend at the moment, and it wasn't always so I don't think.
I wouldn't complain about it, but I'm finding that the more and more promos/radio shows etc that I listen to -featuring up and coming PRODUCERS on the decks- the more and more I am disappointed by their lack of originality with track selection/poor mixing abilities/half ass efforts.
Of course, I've been around long enough to know that in this day and age it's almost a requirement that you NEED to produce to get your name out, and I understand that, but I think some of these guys need a reality check. Just because you can do one, doesn't mean you can do the other.
I'm also ing tired of the classic "mixes" that are all a producer's productions, it was kind of a cool idea I guess but it's so overdone. In my opinion, that's what makes EDM interesting, is that DJ's have the luxury of playing a whole variety of other people's music, whereas a Rockstar plays almost exclusively their own original songs. (And maybe a "cover" of some classic in the mix for fun). So if an EDM producer goes ahead and floods his mixes with just his own prods, it kind of defeats the purpose of being an exciting DJ... IMO.
Also, most of them probably do that just for promo purposes, it makes sense but it's a bit annoying.
Guy J, Anil Chawla, Eelke Kleijn, etc... They are all red hot producers, but every "DJ" set or mix of theirs I've heard has been . Boring/poor transitions, inundated with their own productions that don't all together fit in with the flow and more often than not, totally recycled track lists from other "big name" DJs.
This is all my opinion obviously, and my perspective, what's yours? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | | producers who (justifiably) want a piece of the DJ fame/glory action? |
I think it's probably more for money and promotion of their names. Good for the labels too. |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
I think it's probably more for money and promotion of their names. Good for the labels too. |
Ya there's that too, but the ones that start "heavily" touring, it cant all be for the money and label promo, it must take a toll on the person and there's a lot of sacrifices to be made, I just think you'd have to really love it to undertake some of the intense schedules these guys keep! |
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| Aristronica |
| i think they have every right to do what they want. because there are DJs that don't produce (like me) - and we don't want them getting anywhere either. |
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| nefardec |
There are probably few things better than playing your music out for a crowd of people who eat it up and come to the venue just because of your name, and to be able to get a high profile DJ gig without going through all of the bull involved with rising up in a local scene/residencies/etc. It's like a free ticket to massive self-aggrandizement.
Plus it's like field research for a producer who wants to make people dance - you can see how they are moving, what they like and dislike, etc
so imagine playing a gig on a weekend where you get to:
a.) play your music for a crowd that wants it (ie come to a club with respect before you even play)
b.) test new ideas in a club setting on a club system
c.) meet new people (especially members of opposite sex)
d.) get free things (drugs, alcohol, meals, etc)
e.) get a nice paycheck and buy a new synth or speaker etc
f.) travel everywhere
sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and I think I would eat it up if I ever had the chance.
I also really hate label mixes and these sorts of things.
But for me there are always people that are playing records and then there are DJs, and the world knows who they are... |
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| Darkarbiter |
Well Metapsychic records (newschool goa trance) recently started a net radio show using their producers (and apparently DJs... but I don't see the involvment of a label with the DJs)... they play mostly the labels stuff but also play other stuff when the time is right. This is how things should be done... 1 single producer being more than 20%(at max) of the mix will just makes things being stale... I believe it's much better to do it as Metapsychic has done... have it label based. After all thats what friends (labels) are for right? I dunno maybe the attitude labels have outside the Goa community is different...
If I was a producer... I'd have my songs in (up to 2) of 3 places in say a 10-16 song set (again I'm talking in Goa speak here... so bear in mind thats an hour to an hour and 50 minute set).
Being at the start, at the end or at the peak (or one of them... sometimes theres more than one)
I've never seen Astral Projection live(well probably won't either... now they are all progressive)... but if their set is great tunes and ends in People can Fly as well as starts off with ionized then I'd be happy. I reckon you should either have below 20% your tunes or... if your a really unique artist (tbh there really aren't many... I'm thinking out of the whole Psy/Goa scene only really Infected mushroom) then you play all your own stuff. Most producers probably don't even have enough good tunes anyway... |
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| Igaryok |
Producing is where you make a name for yourself, and DJing is where you make the money. Simple as that. There was a really good write up John Fleming did on this very subject.
Taken from John's Myspace blog.
| quote: | Want to make a living from music production?
So the day has come and you've decided that you want to make a living from producing dance music, you have your resignation ready to hand into your day job and you already have your eye on that new car you've always wanted. Many people think the music industry is a wash with riches and come into the music industry blind with blinkers on, and then true reality hits them. I'm here to tell you the honest truth and try and make you have a realistic understanding of the dance music world out there.
There used to be a day when you could earn a tidy living from making dance music but the music industry has changed dramatically over the past decade due to technology, which has bought much good, but there have been many drawbacks. The main culprit was the introduction of the MP3. This little fella has changed the world and done much good but on the other hand has caused so much damage; it's a double-edged sword with an argument for both cases.
Vinyl used to be the only format DJ's could use as DJ CD players where pretty much none existent (and not accepted in the DJ world), so if a DJ wanted a tune he had to go and buy it as there was no other way around it, so the rewards in sales where pretty generous. Today you can buy that track online as an MP3 for a fraction of the cost from the comfort of your home.....well they are supposed too BUT the biggest problem with our friend the MP3 is that it can easily be shared on torrent websites. Most people don't realize what impact and damage is actually done to independent record labels. Outsiders see the music industry like a scene from a MTV Hip hop video with all staff rolling around in money and driving exotic bling cars, so taking the odd MP3 wont do any harm as there appears to be plenty of money around. Yes maybe in the commercial market but the first to get hit from file sharing are the small independent labels and being honest I have no idea how any of them survive today? If they still press vinyl, they'll be lucky to sell 100 - 300 copies in the current climate compared to 40,000 + in the good old days. From my experience you need to sell 500 to break even. So now you can see why most labels are dropping vinyl, as it's not worth the risk. MP3' sales have come along and given a glimmer of hope to the independent labels and sales are starting to increase, but they are still small numbers of sales and each sale brings in a tiny profit thus meaning the producer earns only a small amount.
Most of these labels are now run from homes, as they can't afford to rent an office or staff. This is the harsh reality of the current state of the dance music industry, like me, most of the label bosses I know run their labels as a passion and love for music, as long as the bills are covered they are happy. The biggest problems are if the labels are struggling to keep afloat there's not much of a royalty payment for the artist who make the music.
There are still positives from this shift in 21st century technology and that's cost. In the old days if a producer wanted to make a track he had to rent a studio for a week unlike today where we are gifted with PC's and an endless supply of plug-ins. All those plug-ins used to sit as hardware in a recording studio, an average synth would cost around £1500, throw a few of them in the equation along with a sampler, then you needed compressors and other processing gear and not forgetting a mixing desk. £30,000 would buy you a basic recording studio and you wouldn't get much change from £500 renting one for a week with an engineer. Many of today's youngsters don't realize this as the sit in front of their home computers making music. So a huge plus point of technology is that we are seeing many new producers being able to make music very easily with little expense and get it up for sale on download sites by setting up their own digital labels, but again we see a huge negative because the industry is flooded with all this music that isn't being filtered correctly by A&R label managers who ensure production, engineering and mastering are done correctly, to me the most important stage.
Digital labels too befit from the new technology as they no longer have the huge expense of pressing vinyl, bulky postage and packaging to distributors and shops across the world and of course promotion. The aforementioned can be done at the touch of a button and the tracks are promoted across the world instantly and it shames me to say it but tracks ending up on torrent sites become free promotion for both the artist and record label, thus being part of my double edged sword theory. I see this first hand experience as I tour the World and my music is known everywhere I go!!
So yes we have to face it know one on this earth can stop file sharing, but people who use these torrent sites know they're filled with thousands of tracks and its impossible to go through all these tracks to find what you want, this is why we will always need record labels because their brands draw you to a certain style. As I mentioned before, anyone today has access to a PC and can release a track as a digital file, and to be honest there's a lot of cheap sounding rubbish music out there cluttering the shops and this is why record labels will always play and important roll. The A&R guys behind good labels have the ears to source talented producers and also ensure the finished tracks are produced, engineered and mastered to the highest quality. They will advise and guide you to the next level in your career, these guys could have the power to make or break a career and it's why you must respect them. Unfortunately this often doesn't happen as many newcomers come into this industry completely blind with ridicules expectations due to lack of knowledge. Every time I come back from a music conference I hear the same recurring stories of new producers hassling the labels they've signed tracks too because they're simply naive to what's going on. Some new producers actually think they will sell thousands of downloads then get offended when only a handful are sold, they take it personally and blame the label for the entire downfall of the music industry. They also get confused with how the royalty system works and create unnecessary uncomfortable heated discussions when it comes payment. They also have the misconception that they get signed to a label and then all the work to build their DJ career is done by the label boss?! The only job of the label is to release the track and promote it to the World getting as much exposure as possible for the artist, its then your job to get the gigs. Record labels and DJ agencies are two different things with completely different databases. You'll soon be dropped from the label if you hassle them due to ignorance because they need to constantly educate you, they don't mind giving advice and helping but not to be blamed for the fall of the entire music industry, they need likewise thinking people in the family so they can concentrate on the job in hand, promoting your music across the world.
My advice would be research the industry and climate before you sign your track, then you will have a realistic overview because you need the support of the label behind you.
Like any job, this is why it's so important to come into this industry having some sort of knowledge of how things work; this is the way of the working world. People spend years at collage being trained for a certain career or skill, so treat it like a new job and have some sort of basic knowledge of how things work; what amount of units you might sell, what percentage of royalties to expect, what advance, if any, you will get etc. This makes everyone's life much easier then you'll be a pleasure to work with and will be fully supported.
So reality is these new producers come into this world expecting to make a few tracks then leave their daytime jobs to make a living out of music, when in fact its the other way around, most established producers I know have had to get daytime jobs because the income is now so small form music, unfortunately this is the current state of the dance music industry. They key is to turn your production into live or DJ gigs, as this is where you earn your wage. You (or your DJ agency) need to make this happen working in tandem with your record label as you both benefit from this, the more gigs you do, and the more sales they will get and visa versa. This is why its so important that you work so closely with your label and make their life as easy as possible after all the label isn't earning hardly anything from this, he's doing all the work for you, remember this!!
So make music as a passionate hobby, then you'll enjoy it, that's the attitude I take and a cherish every minute in the studio. If you're making it for a quick buck, then all the bad and frustration will come out of you and eventually you'll lose the motivation and drive to produce, I've seen this happen with many producers.
It's a real shame the industry has turned into this state because producers should get rewarded for their fine work, after all DJ's wouldn't be able to do their job without music but this is reality of how the world is today and we have to accept it because its not going to change. Take this understanding view and you will have more chance of making it out there, be awkward and you'll be looking for another label! |
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| jupiterone |
| Both sides are bound to get you money if you play your cards right. Though, performances will bring you the larger bulk of the dough. |
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| LionsLair |
| Nothing wrong with producers becoming DJ's. If anyone knows what a crowd needs, its a producer. Producers have good taste in music usually. Some of the most successful DJ's are producers as well, it goes both ways really. |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
There are probably few things better than playing your music out for a crowd of people who eat it up and come to the venue just because of your name, and to be able to get a high profile DJ gig without going through all of the bull involved with rising up in a local scene/residencies/etc. It's like a free ticket to massive self-aggrandizement.
Plus it's like field research for a producer who wants to make people dance - you can see how they are moving, what they like and dislike, etc
so imagine playing a gig on a weekend where you get to:
a.) play your music for a crowd that wants it (ie come to a club with respect before you even play)
b.) test new ideas in a club setting on a club system
c.) meet new people (especially members of opposite sex)
d.) get free things (drugs, alcohol, meals, etc)
e.) get a nice paycheck and buy a new synth or speaker etc
f.) travel everywhere
sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and I think I would eat it up if I ever had the chance.
I also really hate label mixes and these sorts of things.
But for me there are always people that are playing records and then there are DJs, and the world knows who they are... |
This doesn't have anything to do with this post so mods feel free to delete it.
But Adam I saw your top 10 list on the Beatport charts the other day. Right on man. Way to go with getting a chart on Beatport, and there were some pretty good Deep Techno tracks on that . Like I said way to go. And mods feel free to delete this if you want. |
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| richg101 |
i think its a lot harder to make a track that gets you dj bookings, than it is to kiss ass in the local scene and build a purely dj name for yourself. in my city there is a huge number of ty boring dj's who just play other peoples tracks. i have to say that if i had the choice of seeing the producer who had made a track i love, playing tunes he wants to play. or watching one of the boring 'local talents' seamlessly mixing other peoples tracks, i would chose the producer.
they say 'its not what you know, its who you know/blow'. and i think this is the case a lot more if you are one of these boring dj's who dont make music, than if you manage to make a really nice piece of music that makes people wanna hear your music choice in a club. |
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