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Phrases and bars
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| SebG |
I have been studying DJ Tutors videos. I recall somebody saying that he was wrong about bars and phrases.
So Bar is = 1xxx2xxx3xxx4xxx or 1234|1234|1234|1234
And a phrase would be 1 Bar?
Is this correct? |
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| JD8180 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SebG
I have been studying DJ Tutors videos. I recall somebody saying that he was wrong about bars and phrases.
So Bar is = 1xxx2xxx3xxx4xxx or 1234|1234|1234|1234
And a phrase would be 1 Bar?
Is this correct? |
methinks it's the other way around. 4 bars (bar being just 1,2,3,4) is one phrase. |
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| SebG |
| quote: | Originally posted by JD8180
methinks it's the other way around. 4 bars (bar being just 1,2,3,4) is one phrase. |
So 1234| is one phrase?
So whats [1234|1234|1234|1234] called, where bar is just a single number [1] a phrase is the four numbers [1234] ? |
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| s3nate |
4 beats = 1 bar
32 beats = phrase
???????? |
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| stan229 |
| i really dont think you should be counting beats/phrases.. use your ears and feel the music :) |
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| Darkarbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by stan229
i really dont think you should be counting beats/phrases.. use your ears and feel the music :) |
+1 never really actively counted much... I've learnt to recognise it from listening to stuff... and looking at waveforms.
The DJ tutor used to count phrases and call them bars (so he'd think that 4 phrases was actually one) however in general I think I could make a sweeping generalisation and say that 4 phrases doesn't usually do anything.
He recently redid those kind of tutorials... but interestingly enough didn't delete the old ones... I know a lot of people watch his videos from oldest to youngest so that isn't going to be very good for them.
Also on topic: I was watching his drum and bass video the other day and he said "this song is very special because the pads are actually in time"... that is a very misleading comment! Ofcourse they are in time! If they weren't then it wouldn't be very good music now would it (especially considering drum & bass in an electronic genre).
I'm sure his beatmatching tutorials are all very nice but his theory work often has errors.
BTW in standard 4/4 music that doesn't have broken beats (drum and bass or breakbeat) then one kick is usually a bar. The problem is that kickdrums are often refered to as beats which is highly confusing. Anyway in standard music
1 kick=1 bar
and theres 4 beats to every bar. However IMO when djing you don't really need to count the 4/4.
In general I find that kicks are on the first beat of the bar. Also... its interesting that in the most common drum and bass breakbeat (I think it's called the amen break or something?) it appears that the main highhat actually keeps the beat.
So it looks like
K-H-F-F-F-H-R-R
K-R-H-R
K=kick
H=High hat (or at least the main one)
F=That funky drum pattern
R=Rest
Breakbeat and Drum and bass usually has its percussion rythmns set up in lots of two bars (8 beats). I also find that if someone has a funky percussion rythmn (yet still has a once a bar standard kick) then the rythmn is in lots of 2 bars (8 beats). Also many other rythmns are like that. I've also heard people refering the 4/8/16 pattern.
So really music is divided into
4-Bar(one kick and hi hat a bar. I'd say this is less useful to watch out for then the 8)
8-No name(most melodies are broken up into lots of two bars... also the percussion melodies in drum and bass and breakbeat are typically 8 beats long... interestingly this doesn't really have a name afaik)
16-Phrase(new melodies come in... old ones drift out... also sixteenth note baselines (doof, doof, doof, doof doof doof,[Each comma represents a new bar] are played according to this... when mixing you must pay attention to phrases and make sure that if song one is in bar 1 of a phrase then song two must be in bar 1 etc. If you have a song go into chorus and then another song changes melodies[like enters a break for example] a bar later it will sound crap. If the same happens except 4 bars apart it will sound much better. Also some melodies are phrase based. I'd probably say its pretty rare for a melody to stretch across more then one phrase.)
TBH I don't see the point of counting individual bars (and not in lots of 2 or 4)
Thats my comments on the subject |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by stan229
i really dont think you should be counting beats/phrases.. use your ears and feel the music :) |
Not quiiiiite that simple for a beginner imo.... but anyways...
In most house tunes a track changes after 8 bars.
That is to say
1xxx2xxx3xxx4xxx5xxx6xxx7xxx8xxx OMG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE 9xxx10xxx11xxx12xxx13xxx14xxx15xxx16xxx OMG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE 17xxx18xxx19xxx20xxx21xxx22xxx23xxx24xxx25 OMG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE xxx26xxx27xxx28xxx29xxx30xxx32xxx33 OMG HUGEST ING CHANGE EVER WTFWTFWTF xxx etc etc
Where:
#s = # of bar in question and FIRST BEAT of that bar
xxx = 2nd, 3rd and 4th beat of the numbered bar
So, every 8 bars there is a change, an element coming in or an element going out, it can be as small as a new percussion instrument coming in, or as big as a new bass layer or some pads.
Every 4 sets of 8 bars (32 bars) there is usually a fairly big change, although there are plenty of exceptions to this "rule".
While theory like this will help with basics like beatmatching and VERY basic phrasing, your best bet is to listen to your tunes A LOT and get to know them very well, that will allow for the best mixing possible as you will know exactly where to place every little bit of your transition. |
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| Darkarbiter |
| As I said above... listening to music AND seeing the waveform in traktor or whatever was a big help for me and will probably be for a lot of other people. It's good to be able to spot a phrase just from looking at a waveform (although I guess you can't do that with overly mastered tracks) |
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| s3nate |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alex
Not quiiiiite that simple for a beginner imo.... but anyways...
In most house tunes a track changes after 8 bars.
That is to say
1xxx2xxx3xxx4xxx5xxx6xxx7xxx8xxx OMG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE 9xxx10xxx11xxx12xxx13xxx14xxx15xxx16xxx OMG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE 17xxx18xxx19xxx20xxx21xxx22xxx23xxx24xxx25 OMG SIGNIFICANT CHANGE xxx26xxx27xxx28xxx29xxx30xxx32xxx33 OMG HUGEST ING CHANGE EVER WTFWTFWTF xxx etc etc
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hahahaha, good way to put it |
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| nefardec |
4 beats - one bar in most dj dance music
phrase - whenever you feel it |
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| s3nate |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
4 beats - one bar in most dj dance music
phrase - whenever you feel it |
I thought a phrase was every 32 beats? |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| quote: | Originally posted by s3nate
I thought a phrase was every 32 beats? |
8, 16, 32, 64, 128 etc. In 4/4, that is. |
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