|
This is the "freedom" our soldiers are fighting for? (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| capo tutti di |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Gah... So many posts to answer to, but I'll quickly hit on a few for now.
CF is composed of volunteers. So people sign up, knowing what they are getting into.
These soldiers died as 'heroes' by doing their duty. Doesn't matter how they died.
There is no 'heroic' way to die in war.
You do know that Canadian way of life is pretty much everything that Osama and his band of loonies is completely against? Considering Canada is part of NATO, have free democracy, freedom of speech, religion, whatnot, I don't think fundamentalist Muslims don't like us much.
Face the facts, folks. Not everyone loves Canadians.
21st century politics and public pressure don't let wars happen easily. |
Bravo!! Nice Rebuttal
Still I feel no direct threat from the country of Afghanistan, and i'm not including Muslim fundamentalist's because they can be born and bred anywhere...the country its self is not loved by many if any...and from a military standpoint?? I guess theres not much to say about that |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by capo tutti di
Still I feel no direct threat from the country of Afghanistan, and i'm not including Muslim fundamentalist's because they can be born and bred anywhere...the country its self is not loved by many if any...and from a military standpoint?? I guess theres not much to say about that |
In a way, I wish there is an terrorist related incident happen in Canada just to wake up the Canadians. The Muslim fundamentalist are playing for keeps; Canadians don't seem to realize that we have a major stake in this too.
September 11 woke up the Yanks. The subway terrorist incidents woke up the Brits. So did the train bombing in Spain.
The threat of terrorism is not real to many Canadians, who keep thinking that the world loves Canadians everywhere and we're all peacekeepers and all that nonsense.
I blame this on Cretin, Martin and Harper for their failure to properly communicate, and help the Canadians understand exactly what is at stake here. (doesn't help that the opposition parties have their heads up their asses) |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by capo tutti di
Bravo!! Nice Rebuttal
Still I feel no direct threat from the country of Afghanistan, and i'm not including Muslim fundamentalist's because they can be born and bred anywhere...the country its self is not loved by many if any...and from a military standpoint?? I guess theres not much to say about that |
I think what you're missing is that the former Afghani government not only allowed Muslim fundamentalist terrorist organizations to operate there with impunity but it also overtly supported these groups. It is far easier for any organization to go about it's business if it is not prohibited from doing so under law. This is the danger; that terrorists will again have a haven where they can recruit, raise funds, and train legitimately. No one actually fears the legitimate Afghan military. |
|
|
| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
This is the danger; that terrorists will again have a haven where they can recruit, raise funds, and train legitimately. No one actually fears the legitimate Afghan military. |
The terrorists have havens throughout the world....heck...even right here in Ontario terrorists are raisinf funds, training and recruiting. As an insurance adjuster you know full well that some money paid out on injury claims is going to support sleeper cells right here. The insurance institute knows this as fact yet there is really nothing we can do to stop this from happening. Before we go trying to fix the problems in other countries we need to put more focus on fixing these same problems in our own country. |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
The terrorists have havens throughout the world....heck...even right here in Ontario terrorists are raisinf funds, training and recruiting. As an insurance adjuster you know full well that some money paid out on injury claims is going to support sleeper cells right here. The insurance institute knows this as fact yet there is really nothing we can do to stop this from happening. Before we go trying to fix the problems in other countries we need to put more focus on fixing these same problems in our own country. |
Indeed, terrorists are raising funds throughout the world; however, if it were legal for them to do so then it would be easier for them. There's a reason you don't see Osama listed as the keynote speaker for a $1000/plate black tie dinner... |
|
|
| Jungle Fever |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
IMO we shouldn't be sticking our noses where they don't belong. |
Sure allow other nations to kill for no apparent reason. We should go over there and help them kill this evil person who likes to read. Sarcasm ... if not noted. |
|
|
| cenik |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
IMO we shouldn't be sticking our noses where they don't belong. |
+1. |
|
|
| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
We are members of NATO. NATO has a mutual defence pact, which holds that if one member of NATO is attacked all others are to come to their defence. The US was attacked by a group that was supported, fostered, and sheltered by the Afgaistan government of the day. Since the US is also a member of NATO we were obliged to come to their defence. The decision to join the mission to oust the Taliban was the correct one. We continue to have troops in the theater because withdrawing now will most certainly result in the Taliban again holding power, which is likely to result in another attack down the road, requiring another invasion.
You cannot go into a country, create a vacuum of power, then leave and expect it not to bite you in the ass later. |
lol I was asking a rhetorical question, but thanks for taking the time to answer anways :)
We're on the same page on this one. What you just said is what I was trying to incite. We did come in there, ousted a ruling power, and must now, to the best of our ability, stay until a possible stable solution comes up, one not involving the reinstatement of the previously ousted regime. |
|
|
| daves |
Okay...yes there are still terrorists there, yes there is still a battle against the Taliban going on there.
This article is about extremist/fundamentalist type action being taken by the country's own law system... supported by its senate, endorsed by its parliament.
| quote: | from the article
he was accused of blasphemy after he downloaded a report from a Farsi website which stated that Muslim fundamentalists who claimed the Koran justified the oppression of women had misrepresented the views of the prophet Mohamed.
|
| quote: |
Mr Kambaksh, 23, distributed the tract to fellow students and teachers at Balkh University with the aim, he said, of provoking a debate on the matter. But a complaint was made against him and he was arrested, tried by religious judges without – say his friends and family – being allowed legal representation and sentenced to death.
|
| quote: |
Qayoum Baabak, the editor of Jahan-i-Naw, said a senior prosecutor in Mazar-i-Sharif, Hafiz Khaliqyar, had warned journalists that they would be punished if they protested against the death sentence passed on Mr Kambaksh.
|
Isn't it interesting that this is the law and government that we supported from the western world, that our troops are over there to help keep in place? |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by daves
Okay...yes there are still terrorists there, yes there is still a battle against the Taliban going on there.
This article is about extremist/fundamentalist type action being taken by the country's own law system... supported by its senate, endorsed by its parliament.
Isn't it interesting that this is the law and government that we supported from the western world, that our troops are over there to help keep in place? |
What did you expect? That overnight, suddenly people with no tradition of human rights are going to suddenly wake up and accept the world standard for human rights?
It'll take a generation to change the minds of Afghan people, to accept human rights, to educate the people.
There's a lot of media and human rights groups on top of this now, so I doubt Karzai will let this go too far, but we'll see. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
Only kinda related, but this story gets a big WTF from me
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_....html?id=272528
| quote: |
Killing Canadians 'best way': student
Web posts spark RCMP probe, free speech debate
Stewart Bell, National Post Published: Wednesday, January 30, 2008
More On This Story
While Defence Minister Peter MacKay was visiting Kandahar, a Mississauga university student wrote: "I pray that the Taliban kill our MacKay motherf---er."Sergeant Carole MorissetteWhile Defence Minister Peter MacKay was visiting Kandahar, a Mississauga university student wrote: "I pray that the Taliban kill our MacKay motherf---er."
TORONTO - A Toronto-area man has been posting messages on the Internet supporting attacks against Canadian soldiers on Canadian soil, drawing the attention of RCMP national security investigators.
Police have advised the Bangladeshi-Canadian that he is under investigation for incitement and facilitating terrorism after he repeatedly called the killing of Canadian troops in Canada "legitimate" and "well deserved."
No charges have been laid, but counterterrorism officers are apparently taking it seriously, and the case has set off a debate inside government over where to draw the line between free expression and incitement.
"The promotion of hate and violence has no place in Canadian society, and it is an offence under the Criminal Code," Stockwell Day, the Minister of Public Safety, responded when shown a sample of the postings. "Our government carefully balances the right to freedom of expression with our duty to protect Canadians from harm."
Alarm bells about the online writings went off last September after German authorities arrested three Islamic militants accused of planning to bomb the Ramstein Air Base and Frankfurt International Airport.
That same day, Salman Hossain posted several messages about the plot on the comment board of a Toronto-based Internet site where he is a frequent contributor.
Although Mr. Hossain claimed in one of his communications with the National Post that he made the comments in a private online chat room, the messages can easily be viewed by anyone using a simple Google search.
"I hope the German brothers were gonna blow up US-German bases in their country. We should do that here in Canada as well. Kill as many western soldiers as well so that they think twice before entering foreign countries on behalf of their Jew masters," he wrote.
"Any and all Western soldiers getting prepared to enter Muslim nations like Afghanistan or Iraq should be legitimate targets by any and all Islamic militants either in the attacked nations or in the western nations --if there were any planned attacks against Canadian/ American soldiers by 'Muslim militants' in Canadian soil, I'd support it," he added.
"Canadian soldiers in Canadian soil who are training to go to Afghanistan or Iraq are legitimate targets to be killed. … Now it is POSSIBLE AND LEGITIMATE!! ... believe me, if we could have enough of our soldiers killed, then we'd be forced to withdrawn from Afghanistan."
In addition, he singles out Jews, writing: "When do I get to shoot a few Jews down for attempting to blow up dozens of mosques in America right after 9-11 … why f---ing target the Americans when the Jews are better?"
The author of the messages is a Mississauga university student in his mid-twenties who claims to know the infamous Khadr family and several of the men arrested in Toronto in June, 2006, on terrorism conspiracy charges. He confirmed to the National Post that he was the author of the postings but later declined to comment further on the advice of his lawyer. While he writes that he approves of attacking Canadian troops, he also says he would not do so himself.
Despite being visited by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and RCMP and told he was under investigation, Mr. Hossain has continued to post messages approving of attacks on Canadian troops.
Saying anti-war protests "will do sh$$," he describes a "mass casualty" attack on the home-front as "a well considered option" and "the best way to compel western soldiers to get out of Afghanistan/Iraq."
Such an attack "would be fantastic and would get the job done," he writes. "If someone gets the bright idea of committing such a wonderful act, it's NOT my responsibility in any way, shape or form."
He wrote, "I enjoy watching the blood flow from the western troops," and during Defence Minister Peter MacKay's Christmas week visit to Kandahar, he wrote: "I pray that the Taliban kill our Mackay motherf---er."
In other postings, he wishes "a merry 9-11, and I wish y'all many more merry 9-11s"; says "the Jews are literally the most treacherous nation on the face of the Earth"; says "I hate the Jews"; and claims "the filthy Jews carried out 9-11."
He rails at police, saying "you can't charge me for possessing a thought" and writes that he "honestly got a kick outta pissing off the RCMP … HAHAHA … i was laughing my ass off for provoking the RCMP."
The case comes as Canadian security agencies are struggling to deal with extremism among a minority of Muslim Canadians, particularly youths. Intelligence analysts believe much of this radicalization is occurring on the Internet.
"So what we are in the presence of is a ranter, informed by the usual conspiratorial views that are unfortunately part and parcel of extremist Islamist thought -- especially the core anti-Semitic notion of a giant Jewish conspiracy," said Professor Wesley Wark, a Canadian security expert.
But he said while the language is violent and crude, it is probably harmless venting. "On the other hand, there is always a worry that such speech could tip over into action by this person or others of like mind."
The RCMP would not comment on the probe, saying sensitive matters of national security were involved, but spokeswoman Corporal Cathy McCrory said the government was "committed to ensuring the safety and security of citizens and we will not tolerate those that seek to harm Canadians."
Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA) does not specifically outlaw incitement of terrorism, although such a measure has been discussed by MPs.
Prof. Work, visiting research professor at the University of Ottawa School of Public and International Affair, said a debate on the topic is needed.
"It's high time we had a proper public airing of the pros and cons of further reforms to the ATA, including an incitement clause, and a public airing of the nature of legal powers needed to ensure prompt and effective monitoring of potentially harmful Internet traffic."
A few days after Mr. Hossain wrote that "we should do" a Ramstein-type plot in Canada, the RCMP contacted him. He spoke to them on Sept. 18 at his lawyer's office.
He later posted messages saying he was under police investigation, but he said that "cheerleading" for Muslim insurgents in Afghanistan "is every Muslim's right."
Although he did not tone down his rhetoric, he did make one change: His comments are now sometimes followed by a disclaimer that says he is not inciting violence but merely "suggesting" scenarios and he is not responsible if they actually happen.
"I don't see how the right to free speech includes deliberate
incitement to violence," said Bruce Hoffman, a Georgetown University professor and a leading international expert on terrorism, after reading the postings.
"One would think that [Canadian soldiers] are owed more than, 'Well, I don't think we can secure a conviction.' How demoralizing is it for soldiers to find out that people are openly advocating terrorism against them and yet the government who they serve won't do anything about it because it's either too much trouble or there's no guarantee they're going to succeed?"
Prof. Hoffman said the postings remind him of the material that incited Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. "Reading those, I was wondering, is there any Western country that would tolerate people posting things talking about staging attacks like this?"
He said that while there was no guarantee a criminal case would succeed, prosecutors might want to go ahead anyway, if only to send a message that "you can't openly advocate the murder of Canadian soldiers.
Four months after he met RCMP officers at his lawyer's office, the Mississauga man continues to make provocative postings. On Jan. 17, he wrote that, "If the Taliban had the capability to attack our troops in our own soil, which I personally hope they do in the future, then these pussies will be dead scared of sending any more troops in2 Afghanistan."
[email protected]
---
BACK STORY
An Internet posting from Oct. 29, 2007, in which Salman Hossain imagines, presumably tongue-in-cheek, how the RCMP would describe him:
WANTED!!! DEAD OR ALIVE … - Considered armed and/or dangerous … may be considering taking a trip to Afghanistan on G-Haad training. If not, possibly wired with explosives threatening to blow up Parliament Hill, and threatening attacks on NATO-National Army bases around the nation or perhaps overseas. He is wanted in connection with the attacks that have killed 70+ troops so far. Please hand him over to relevant authorities otherwise he may blow himself up in your face. If you do see him with perhaps heavy clothing -- PLEASE call your local bomb disposal unit and the SWAT team along with the National Army. Potential future Bin Laden!!! - Height: 5'5" - Weight: 135 lbs - Tastes: Enjoys prayer, perfume and/or women. - Dislikes: Jews, Terrorists, Apes, Pigs (refrains from eating), Mossad, Zionists, Bankers, Moneylenders, anything Israeli in nature, Black op Merceneries [Sic], Media-men, Jewish supremacists, anything Kosher, Synagogues, rabbis and other holy crooks pretending to be Saviours from God, and of course last but not least the F---ING TALMUD. - Ambition:Willing to martyr himself in kamekaze [Sic] attack. - Any physical peculiarities: Has tattoos on his arm claiming "God is Great" in Arabic. - Under investigation for: 1. Inciting hate speech 2. Uttering death threats 3. Facilitating terrorism. |
|
|
|
| Dr. DAS |
It's pretty obvious from reading some of this douchbag's posts that he is just another uneducated, misguided youth who is regurgitating whatever propaganda he can find. Unfortunately, this is exactly the kind of person that extremists seek to pervert further.
His opinions are derivative and poorly composed. Hopefully, he'll grow out of this crap.
If not, he's more than welcome to leave Canada. |
|
|
|
|
