One thing that pisses me off about this whole issue, is that while listeners want "new", they can't handle "new" as it goes against their traditional views of what the music "should" sound like. If you take down-tempo for example, you'll seldom hear people saying that the music should have been done this or that way, but rather that they perhaps think one or two of the melodic elements could've been enhanced in one way or another by musical content backing here or there; you're essentially free to make music any which way you want to, and people eat it up. With trance, if you do something different, it's not conformist enough; I cannot tell you how many times I've been told that I've made a great piece of music, but that it's not really the type of track the label is looking for, as they want something clubbier (and by clubbier they mean less musical content focus, and more fx, sparkles, and club tricks focus), or that the label has said that the melody and structure is too complex, and then have asked me to dumb it down a bit so that it becomes releasable. At that point (the latter) I typically tell the label to off. There's this stupid notion - and I see this has already been touched on - that music first and foremost is the production quality, and only secondly is the musical content.
paulandrews
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
What I am doing is attacking the ideologies behind minimalism's current dominance.
When you actually think about it, the control of what's cool and trendy in electronic music comes down to relatively few people.
I think that applies to trends in general. There are always few key factors/people who determine what's going to be cool. They need to have good access to what's currently happening in the underground, and they have to know a lot of people - in case of the magazines have a wide following. Hasn't it always been like that, though? Were the reasons behind previous booms in music somewhat different to those behind minimalism? Printed magazines and the spread of word have always been there, but they usually influenced only the local scene. With the rise of internet, the scene has just become more globalized, speeding up all the processes behind trends, making them wide-spread, and more transparent. Furthermore, we can even immediately watch how the readers/listeners respond, as they provide instant feedback on various messageboards or community servers. Hasn't all this just become more visible?
Mr Game+Watch
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Emotion is thoroughly out of style. Which isn't to say people don't like it or search for it.
Let me use an example. I'm currently reviewing Dave Seaman's new Renaissance mix- the Masters Series Part 10. Listening to it, I found myself comparing it to Seaman's old mixes for Renaissance, such as the Mix Collection Part 4 in 1997, as Dave's stated intention was to encapsulate the current sound of progressive house, where as the 1997 Mix Collection did just the same for 11 years ago. My basic conclusion was that prog house has lost a lot of energy and a lot of emotional overtness, particularly in the last few years, as it tries to lose its image of music for the 90s and stay relevant.
However, checking out the Resident Advisor review of the same record, I read this:
"...Seaman evaporates the goodwill he’s built up by moving into the big room with a string of peak hour builders so cheesy and melodically overblown that you’ll wonder if you’ve been teleported back to the late 1990s."
To me, a self-confessed fan of the 90s progressive sound, this new mix was the sound of prog trying to cut itself down to a more sparse, reserved sound. However, to the trend-following RA guys, it's "cheesy" and "melodically overblown" simply by being prog house. I mean, the peak-time tunes we're talking about here are typified by the use of Who Killed Sparky? by Sasha, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with. Compared with what Sasha was making and playing in the late 90s, this could not be called "cheesy" and especially not "overblown".
RA conclude their review with this damning judgement:
"In the end, The Masters Series 10 sounds like little more than a repackaged late 90s Global Underground mix or any of the numerous others Dave Seaman has already done for Renaissance in the past."
And there it is. Its emotional content automatically render it dated and interchangable with the music of the 90s. Emotion is not cool, it isn't forward-thinking and it isn't edgy.
Oh man, I was reading that review and was gonna complain how that emotional/melodic type music has fallen out of favor with the critics. Excellent post.
So when does your review of Seaman's album go up?
AlphaStarred
Well, I certainly think EM (not so much EDM) is capable of eliciting certain emotions like fear, joy, melancholy. To my opinion, this has more to do with composition, however, the subject which cryophonik broaches.
For my part, I found experimental electronic music to be most emotive (this can include ambient, noise, industrial - on the whole a kind of 'experiment' with sounds and samples - whether they be vocals or otherwise). But ultimately, I found beatless experimental music to affect my emotions most - perhaps because most sounds in reality don't have 'beats' as are present in Industrial productions (not to mention of course any 4x4, electro, idm, drum & bass, etc.).
That said, I used several tracks in my mix (most notably U Fear ETP) to engender a spirit of fear...for if you don't find any parts of the set scary, you might as well be emotionally numb.
I played it for a close friend and I noticed at once how his entire mood grew black and he seemed to be wrestling with certain negative, perhaps harrowing, emotions. I never noticed this with anyone when they listened to other EDM...
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by paulandrews
I think that applies to trends in general. There are always few key factors/people who determine what's going to be cool. They need to have good access to what's currently happening in the underground, and they have to know a lot of people - in case of the magazines have a wide following. Hasn't it always been like that, though? Were the reasons behind previous booms in music somewhat different to those behind minimalism? Printed magazines and the spread of word have always been there, but they usually influenced only the local scene. With the rise of internet, the scene has just become more globalized, speeding up all the processes behind trends, making them wide-spread, and more transparent. Furthermore, we can even immediately watch how the readers/listeners respond, as they provide instant feedback on various messageboards or community servers. Hasn't all this just become more visible?
It hasn't always been true. Certainly not in the 1980s and in the UK rave boom of the early 90s. That was a genuine youth culture movement. Rave records were getting into the mainstream charts despite the fact that no big record labels would touch them and no mainstream stations would playlist them. There has been a steady process of commodification of a once-genuine youth culture movement (as is always the case), and we have reached the stage where it is almost completely controlled by a few key people. The same process has generally been true of all genuine youth culture movements.
However, just because it happens and is happening doesn't mean we should be complicit with the ideology of that system. I have plenty time for the minimal aesthetic but I want to see it exist alongside other forms of expression, rather than choking the life out of them so it can become dominant. So when I see things like that RA review, I'm not going to merely accept them as "things that happen", especially when I have the power to counter it.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Game+Watch
So when does your review of Seaman's album go up?
I've had to put all reviewing on hold for the moment because of excessive pressure from university work. The next week or two... hopefully.
AlphaStarred
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The myth here is that subtlety is desirable and superior.
To my opinion, utterly untrue. I don't want to seem to belabor this but the scariest track I've ever heard (U Fear ETP) is such solely on account of its subtlety. The beginning is not even scary, but the way it slowly grows - or rather descends - into an aural nightmare is almost uncanny.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by AlphaStarred
To my opinion, utterly untrue. I don't want to seem to belabor this but the scariest track I've ever heard (U Fear ETP) is such solely on account of its subtlety. The beginning is not even scary, but the way it slowly grows - or rather descends - into an aural nightmare is almost uncanny.
I'm sorry, but I don't see what you expect to demonstrate with such an example. That your personal favourite example of a certain effect used subtlety says nothing whatsoever about the inherent superiority of inferiority of the method on a general scale.
Besides, speaking from experience of watching many horror films, people tend to be completely divided on whether subtlety or directness are more effective, which merely reinforces my point. Both methods are equally valid when correctly applied, and isolated, specified examples prove nothing.
AlphaStarred
Compose yourself, I'm not trying to demonstrate nor "prove" anything - which is why I stated "to my opinion." And it's not a certain effect, but rather the entire composition. And first of all, I've never heard of such a myth - for, like you said, people tend to be completely divided on whether subtlety or directness are more effective, which I can agree with. Again, to my opinion, most of the time subtlety induces more fear than directness - I find the latter perhaps more disturbing but never more fear-inducing.
Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that from my experience, and from what I've observed, subtlety achieves more of a sense of growing fear and suspense, whereas directness achieves more of a kind of direct, instant, fear, if you will, which I would probably consider less emotionally and psychologically effective.
IMO, these simple chord progressions would still sound beautiful, even if they are played in a piano, in a violin or in a saw-synth etc. Plus, this is modern rock so i would like to add tha the "lack of emotion" is something that IMO characterises EDM and by no means modern music as a whole in general.
IMO, deep/tech house and minimal have magnitudes of emotion but they are low, i really mean that. I doubt that anyone is going to cry or feel really happy and full by listening to any of the tracks listed in Nefardec's list.
Guess what ? It must depends on people because there's a few tracks that can get me very emotional in Nefardec's list, noticeably Quince - vitjazzdepth. I listened to the full tune you posted and it left me relatively cold and I dind't care that much. Emotional music is just so much more than the melody! There could even be almost no melody and it could be emotional.
To me the most emotional electronic music was done during 1991 and 1996 with the likes of nuron, redcell, stasis, b12, the black dog, plaid, kirk degiorgio, john beltran etc. There's some stuff that was one in this era that is still unsurpassed today and that I'll still listen in 20 years for sure.
