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98% of Historians find Bush Presidency a failure; 61% say worst in history (pg. 7)
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| Zild |
| As for names; let us start off with Adolfo Nicolas, the current black pope, AKA Superior General of the Society of Jesus, which I will probably end up in after I finish my grad degree. Yes I do want to be a Jesuit. No I don't believe in God, but when did that ever matter when it comes to the elite priest class? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Edit:
Now that I've gone back and read what I wrote. I didn't call anyone here disinfo. I merely said that sometimes I THINK some of you are but then I realize no that's stupid and you are not. |
haha, fair enough and no worries :) |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
oh yes. and who is exercising this "control"? i want some names.
its also incredibly naive (not to mention paranoid) to believe that users on tranceaddict (that happen to disagree with you) happen to be agents of the nefarious government. Its interesting that people like trancer refer to disinfo agents as if we are to accept their existance at face value, whereas I havent seen a single shred of evidence that there are actually evil agents surfing innocuous sites like music discussion forums in an attempt to pervert the hearts and minds of the populace.
Here's a little eye-opener for you: most people aren't politically aware and don't give two s about the balance of power. There is no need to send in the disinfo agents because people are already under control through lack of interest.
I have no doubt that many vehicles of change or status quo maintenance watch and edit sites like wiki often. However that’s clearly not the same thing as a unified block of secret (US) government bull that the label "disinfo agent" implies. Its merely an unsubstantiated catch-all for the more alternative paranoids to dismiss those that disagree with them.
i find the accusation that any of the posters on tranceaddict are actually agents of the government to reek of a juvenile or undeveloped understanding of how the world really works (especially coming from someone like zild that professes to the use of a rational and scientific mind). |
I wasn't saying on Tranceaddict (or NOT on tranceaddict for that matter). |
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| guerra-monstru |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Shibby
And you are qualified (apparently more qualified than historians) to testify to this how? |
Superior intelligence compared to most historians. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Shibby
I wasn't saying on Tranceaddict (or NOT on tranceaddict for that matter). |
Then what were you saying shibby? Just making a rhetorical accusation devoid of evidence or common sense? Because we know all self-proclaimed free-thinkers just love the romanticism inherent in the unsubstantiated conspiracy business. Its far far easier to make glib remarks than it is to mount an argument that actually stands on its own feet.
Maybe because I live in australia im less fearful of government, but call me crazy if I don’t believe there is a substantial effort being made by your government to sow false information on social forums (political or otherwise).
It takes far far less effort to maintain the status quo; $10/hour disinfo agents (as trancer loves to name them) just arent necessary. I'll be willing to wager your government spends more time and money on spying on people than it does trying to shape their opinion by forum post. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by guerra-monstru
Superior intelligence compared to most historians. |
I... see.. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Then what were you saying shibby? Just making a rhetorical accusation devoid of evidence or common sense? Because we know all self-proclaimed free-thinkers just love the romanticism inherent in the unsubstantiated conspiracy business. Its far far easier to make glib remarks than it is to mount an argument that actually stands on its own feet.
Maybe because I live in australia im less fearful of government, but call me crazy if I don’t believe there is a substantial effort being made by your government to sow false information on social forums (political or otherwise).
It takes far far less effort to maintain the status quo; $10/hour disinfo agents (as trancer loves to name them) just arent necessary. I'll be willing to wager your government spends more time and money on spying on people than it does trying to shape their opinion by forum post. |
I was saying that governments and anti-government groups can and do use many psychological methods of war and control on both foreign and domestic populations.
If there is a place where people congregate in numbers, whether digital or real, there will be many elements presenting many motions into the system.
I think forums wouldn't be a strong point to disseminate information like this unless you did it through a programmed bot; you'd want to hit the public access sites that control the top tiers of information as it disseminates down through to the public, such as my earlier example of wikis. Or news sites.
You're right by the way about the status-quo, and I pointed it out as well: it's harder to swim upstream, and that's why the internet is powerful to the people. |
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| Krypton |
Worst. President. Ever.
“It would be difficult to identify a President who, facing major international and domestic crises, has failed in both as clearly as President Bush,” concluded one respondent. “His domestic policies,” another noted, “have had the cumulative effect of shoring up a semi-permanent aristocracy of capital that dwarfs the aristocracy of land against which the founding fathers rebelled; of encouraging a mindless retreat from science and rationalism; and of crippling the nation’s economic base.”
America’s historians, it seems, don’t think much of George W. Bush.
Now in all fairness, historians should wait a while before passing judgment on a president’s who served recently, much less one still in office. But the current incumbent is a special case. After all, 81 percent of Americans, according to a recent New York Times poll, believe he’s taken the country on the wrong track. That’s the highest number ever registered. The same poll also says 28 percent have a favorable view of his performance in office, which is also in Nixon-in-the-darkest-days-of-Watergate territory.
But, as George Mason University’s History News Network reports, the historians have a different measure. They want to stack him up against his forty-two predecessors as the nation’s chief executive. Among historians, there is no doubt into which echelon he falls–his competitors are Millard Fillmore, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and Franklin Pierce, the worst of the presidential worst. But does Bush actually come in dead last?
Yes. History News Network’s poll of 109 historians found that 61 percent of them rank Bush as “worst ever” among U.S. presidents. Bush’s key competition comes from Buchanan, apparently, and a further 2 percent of the sample puts Bush right behind Buchanan as runner-up for “worst ever.” 96 percent of the respondents place the Bush presidency in the bottom tier of American presidencies. And was his presidency (it’s a bit wishful to speak of his presidency in the past tense–after all there are several more months left to go) a success or failure? On that score the numbers are still more resounding: 98 percent label it a “failure.”
This marks a dramatic deterioration for Bush. Previously he wasn’t viewed in the most positive terms, but there was a consensus that he wasn’t the “worst of the worst” either. That was in the spring of 2004. In the meantime, Bush has established himself as the torture president, the basis for his invasion of Iraq has been exposed as a fraud, the Iraq War itself has gone disastrously, the nation’s network of alliances has faded, and the economy has gone into a tailspin–not to mention the bungled handling of relief for victims of hurricane Katrina. In 2004, only 12 percent of historians were ready to place Bush dead last.
Here are some of the comments that the historians furnished:
“No individual president can compare to the second Bush,” wrote one. “Glib, contemptuous, ignorant, incurious, a dupe of anyone who humors his deluded belief in his heroic self, he has bankrupted the country with his disastrous war and his tax breaks for the rich, trampled on the Bill of Rights, appointed foxes in every henhouse, compounded the terrorist threat, turned a blind eye to torture and corruption and a looming ecological disaster, and squandered the rest of the world’s goodwill. In short, no other president’s faults have had so deleterious an effect on not only the country but the world at large.”
“With his unprovoked and disastrous war of aggression in Iraq and his monstrous deficits, Bush has set this country on a course that will take decades to correct,” said another historian. “When future historians look back to identify the moment at which the United States began to lose its position of world leadership, they will point—rightly—to the Bush presidency. Thanks to his policies, it is now easy to see America losing out to its competitors in any number of areas: China is rapidly becoming the manufacturing powerhouse of the next century, India the high tech and services leader, and Europe the region with the best quality of life.”
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002804 |
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| hardcore trancer |
| History will remember Bush as gods gift to humanity. (according to him that is):p |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
As for names; let us start off with Adolfo Nicolas, the current black pope, AKA Superior General of the Society of Jesus, which I will probably end up in after I finish my grad degree. Yes I do want to be a Jesuit. No I don't believe in God, but when did that ever matter when it comes to the elite priest class? |
It only matters as an entered apprentice, but Masonry a different story all together. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
yeah, i know you profess science. which is why i found your sudden "disinfo agent" crap all the more irritating. |
Not everyone who's scientifically inclined is trapped in an entirely 'left brain' thought pattern. Some people are a little more balanced. And no, you're not a ing agent ;). |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
And no, you're not a ing agent ;). |
I am ...
see sig...:nervous: |
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