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Haha, God. (pg. 3)
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rook
you must have a bad memory. |
No, it was genuinely hilarious. I have a tendency to laugh anytime anyone says something in any religious text "checks out."
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Is it not possible, perhaps even probable that if God exists and is responsible for creation that god mearly laid the groundwork for a self-perpetuating universe? Given that man, presumably all higher forms of life are endowed with free will then it seems logical that god would not take an active role in the procreation of living beings as that would run contrary to free will. Broadening out to a cosmological view, is it not more likely that god would have stepped back after creating the forces and materials that would later create the universe, as once those were in place the rest kind of takes care of itself. In this sense God would have made the creation of every thing possible but not have actively created anything beyond the initial stages of existance. |
Just for fun, let's run with this for a minute. You and I both know that any kind of position on God and creation requires a few blanket or foundational assumptions, and unless I'm wrong, what you've stated above hinges on the assumption that our will is free.
Given that assumption, which of the so-called "omni-3's" are you willing to sacrifice to allow for God to exist compatibly with free will? In order for our will to be free, we've got to have the right to choose, if we have the right to choose, God cannot be omniscient as he cannot possibly know what we will choose given that our will is free. His omnipotence also seems to come into question, albeit on the much weaker argument that for our will to be free, he cannot guide our action - thus removing the quality of his being "all powerful.'
Not trying to pick on you at all Craig, the problem of free will isn't something anyone has come to consensus on, and there are obviously countless ways in which various theists have resolved it for themselves, I'm just curious how you do. |
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| bananas |
| god you're confusing rjt |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Hahah...I love that no matter how many times it's mentioned, everyone is always armed and ready to fight this fight. |
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| Clovis |
| Humans are the HIV of the earth |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Humans are the HIV of the earth |
No, they're the cancer that's killing /b/! |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by bananas
god you're confusing rjt |
How are you confused?
:conf:
Do we really need to have a c0r summary for everything?
c0r Summary: The God of traditional western theology is viewed as omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent (all knowing, all seeing, all powerful). This is not compatible with free will because for our will to be free God cannot know what we're going to do next, nor can he stop us from doing it.
There we go - and all I really wanted was Craig's opinion anyways. :p |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
How are you confused? |
No, he's saying that God is confusing you! |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
No, he's saying that God is confusing you! |
Damn you! |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rook
i used to believe in evolution. however, recently i had a close relative pass away and have started to see thnigs from a different perspective. i have started to do more research about god and his creations, and tbh honest everything he states in the bible and especially what he reveals in the quran seems to check out.
my question is what part of it is debatable..?? its either he did or didnt. |
I hate people that say tbh honest, and other like that. WTF!
To be honest honest, that's what that means you tard, rethink yoar life please.
PTL LORD!
(PRAISE THE LORD, LORD!) |
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| Silky Johnson |
| I thought he was calling you gay. :conf: |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Just for fun, let's run with this for a minute. You and I both know that any kind of position on God and creation requires a few blanket or foundational assumptions, and unless I'm wrong, what you've stated above hinges on the assumption that our will is free.
Given that assumption, which of the so-called "omni-3's" are you willing to sacrifice to allow for God to exist compatibly with free will? In order for our will to be free, we've got to have the right to choose, if we have the right to choose, God cannot be omniscient as he cannot possibly know what we will choose given that our will is free. His omnipotence also seems to come into question, albeit on the much weaker argument that for our will to be free, he cannot guide our action - thus removing the quality of his being "all powerful.'
Not trying to pick on you at all Craig, the problem of free will isn't something anyone has come to consensus on, and there are obviously countless ways in which various theists have resolved it for themselves, I'm just curious how you do. |
Indeed, my argument does hing on the assumption that we have free will. Interestingly, I've actually questioned on many occasions whether or not that is true or we just believe our will is free because we prefer to not think of ourselves as slaves. Ultimately, I cannot assert that this is absolutely true; however, I accept that it is as I cannot see any rational reason for an entity capable of creating the universe to create life therein if they are mearly appendages to himself.
As far as the omnis go, I've struggled. Ultimately, I believe that god must have the ability to be omniscient and omnipotent; however, he has elected to not intervien in the day to day affairs of man (which was once a source of a feeling I had toward god which bordered on hatred). This position does not negate omniscientance or omnipotentance as it is of god's choice not to exercise his omnipotentance thus rendering his non-omniscient. There is a difference between not exercising his abilities and not having them. With regard to the omnibenevolence, I've never accepted that as it pertains to the time we (all living things) spend in physical form, I believe that it is not until after this life that god's omnibenevolence is exercised. I will happily admit; however, that my position on this is really my own based on a number of theological traditions and philisophical positions reconsiled through my own (possibly flawed) reason.
I always enjoy your questions, Rob. Please forgive me if my explenations are clumsy today, I'm fighing the flu and not at the top of my game. |
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