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What should I look for in new Monitors?
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| Takkra |
Alright, so my original monitors broke a week ago :( may they rest in peace.. but I can't go without music for a long while, so I'm looking for a new set of monitors.
What are the things that I absolutely have to pay attention to when I select a pair?
hope to hear from you guys! |
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| Storyteller |
Take music with you you know well. Start listening to monitors that fit your pricerange and take those you think give the fairest representation of the music.
It's easy. Take the set that sounds most honest to you, not the one that sounds best :)
What price range are you aiming for? |
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| DavidArmant |
Like the post above, the monitors that sound good to you are the ones you want.
Also check pawn shops and outlet music stores for used monitors. Sometimes you can get a steal. |
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| richg101 |
| dont look at specs too much. you'd be better off listening to them before any spec's put you off. often the ones that sound worse on paper are the better speakers because they have more conservative readings on the specsheet and dont use as much marketing bulls_hit. |
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| Takkra |
| thanks for the great advice everyone :)! Im off monitorhunting today :D |
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| 3F05Q |
richg is QUITE correct on the marketing bull aspect... If you look at the 'flat' DB scale of a Genelec (8050 for instance) published in their own documentation you will see that it is a 'relative' dB scale. It actually has quite a tilt built into it from the start, so when you think it's flat you go 'wow!'... then you realize that all the controls are to actually make it flat.
Also...
| quote: | Originally posted by 3F05Q
Few things I've learned while working at _______(Certain studio monitor company, I'll talk more in August :) )...
Passive Radiators, great for listening, but I don't like it for production. I'll be using 2 21" passive radiators for a 21" sub that I did a fair bit of design work on. As a result it'll be flat, in room, to some rediculous number in the teens (and xMech = 60mm... that's one way mechanical excursion limit). Why? It'll extend the low end, at what cost? Boominess. Also, I'm not a fan of rear ports, especially with high Q. It loads the back wall/corners too easily...
...Case in point being the Genelec 8050. Damn that sucker goes low, but it's muddy and boomy and loads the front wall. SUPER high Q on the port that faces rearward. I did a waterfall of the 8050 and it's dirtier than my ex. (badum-ching!) They do this to control the excursion of the woofer at low frequencies. At box resonance the excursion of the cone is reduced as it is the driving force of the oscillator (mass on a spring: air in port is the mass, air in box is the spring). I've pulled apart an 8050 and run more tests on it than I would have liked.... or maybe I did like it since I got to pull apart one of the ugliest monitors EVAR!
Adam's don't use ribbon tweeters. They use Heil tweeters. If you think I'm splitting hairs.. I'm not. It's a stiff material. You have magnets front and rear that block most of the sound. 4:1 ratio in 'excursion' to air displacement? Eh... not buying that it's linear. It's wide, which hurts dispersion considerably. They have their port in the right place, though. Does it work? Sure. Does it create good marketing? Yeah, because it's referred to as a ribbon when it isn't a ribbon at all. Ribbon's are great, but they can be MUCH better. I have two patents being written up right now and one is for a ribbon tweeter. The other is for an ultra shallow sub. I'm outdoing the JL thin sub by a longshot. :) I digress... dome tweeters can be better than Heils anyday....
Which brings us to dome tweeter materials. Silk dome, great for listening, not great for producing. They're flabby and don't translate those highs well. Metallic domes are better for monitoring, but can be harsh to your ears if you don't use the right type of alloys. As a result tweeters are not something to skimp on when it comes to a monitor speaker. Dome materials/alloys can get costly, but worth it. Unfortunately, companies would rather save a buck here and there and not do it right. My knowledge breaks down here... breaks down worse than a silk dome tweeter. Katching!
Just as sub placement is critical.. .so is monitor placement. The room dominates the low end. A common room will lift the bottom of a speaker's response by as much as 15dB. Of course this all lends towards speaker placement and even moreso YOUR placement.
My biggest advice... wait until the end of the summer. :) |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by 3F05Q
richg is QUITE correct on the marketing bull aspect... If you look at the 'flat' DB scale of a Genelec (8050 for instance) published in their own documentation you will see that it is a 'relative' dB scale. It actually has quite a tilt built into it from the start, so when you think it's flat you go 'wow!'... then you realize that all the controls are to actually make it flat.
Also... |
im in the process of building a system thatll go flat (+-1.5db) from 30hz upwards. sourcing a suitable 15" or 18" bass driver to deal with the lows as we speak. 3500watts rms into four cabinets running off xta management system:D the 18" drivers will move like pistons when i show them 1250watts of quested/mc2 amplification on each driver:)
system will be available soon for around �12,000 if anyon wants the best monitors in the world.... |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by richg101
system will be available soon for around �12,000 if anyon wants the best monitors in the world.... |
Do you offer a "buy now, pay nothing for 4 years, 0% interest free credit deal?"
If so, put me down for a pair... |
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| Theran |
I would like to give you some tips before you go buying off the first monitor that sounds good:
- Select your budget first, in that way, you don't have to listen to the top-class monitors, and hitting youself because you can't buy them.
- Always listen in the stores, the monitor has to be good for you. Everybody experiences there monitors in another way, some swear by Genelecs, some by Mackie, and I have KRK's, which I prefere above the Genelecs.
- Be carefull when listening in a store. The room there will - probably - be much larger than your studio, it could sound a lot more different than you thought.
- If you have a smaller studioroom, don't go buy off 100watt monitors, they'll probably blow you windows away, and you pay a lot more than you need. |
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| Beyer |
| quote: | | Originally posted by richg101 system will be available soon for around �12,000 if anyon wants the best monitors in the world.... |
*cough*b&w 801*cough*
:tongue3
You will want to have a monitor that has a very clear representation of the sounds passes through them. You certainly do not want them to be "nice" to listen to - as that is a strong indication that it smears over problems in the mix.
In the end, it's up to your personal taste what speakers you want to use. As long as you feel comfortable using them. You can never know how monitors perform REALLY, before you make a few mixes with them, and take them elsewhere to hear if the mixes translate.
I ended up buying focal twin6, as I have very good prior experiences with focal speakers - and because those where the absolute most expensive I could allow myself to buy. And for that price, they are second to none.
Sometimes I wish I bought the focal solo6 instead, because of the smaller size of the cabinet, and the price difference.
Anyway, good luck! I hope you end up with something you like! :) |
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| 3F05Q |
| quote: | Originally posted by richg101
im in the process of building a system thatll go flat (+-1.5db) from 30hz upwards. sourcing a suitable 15" or 18" bass driver to deal with the lows as we speak. 3500watts rms into four cabinets running off xta management system:D the 18" drivers will move like pistons when i show them 1250watts of quested/mc2 amplification on each driver:)
system will be available soon for around �12,000 if anyon wants the best monitors in the world.... |
Sorry man, won't compare to my 21" when it's done. 60mm xmax, one way! I kid, really. That's overkill for what you're doing. :P Flat to about 13Hz in room.
Might I recommend a Creative Sound Solutions SDX15? Split gap for linear BL throughout most of, if not all, of the excursion. That equals super low distortion and great dynamics. Couple that with a low Q port for tight bass. http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/CSS...data-121107.pdf
If you want a bulletproof ribbon (a real ribbon), then let me know. Why not go from 30-40k flat? Heck... you might even be flat to 20Hz IN ROOM. PM me if you want.
If you're planning on building up a super pricey system, then rethink the DSP route. Even at 96kHz sample rate... that's only 9.6 samples per wavelength at 10kHz, only 2.5 per quarter wavelength. That shoots your dynamics to pot. Yes yes... most things only put out 96kHz SR... but what if someone wants to hook up an SACD player, or DVD audio. For that kind of money, your target market will own such players. Get yourself LSPCad (if you don't already!) and design your active filters with that. It's funny, because I just learned how to use it today for this VERY thing!
Anyway... throw me a PM, and we can chat more. I'd REALLY like to know more of your plans! |
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| richg101 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beyer
*cough*b&w 801*cough*
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if i was looking at that sort of stuff id go for a company like pmc. not a fan of the B+W ethic.
@3F05Q
im a strong beliver that you need to really go super overboard to be doing things overkill:). the bass drivers im looking at are really some of the best you can get imo(cgn audiolabs 1808). and will really do proper flat from 150hz down to 30hz. 150hz and up is dealt with by my own design.. cast ceramic speakers...:) |
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