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why does Gen. Clark hate america? (pg. 3)
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Thanks for the link to the interview. After seeing it, you people sound even more ridiculous than when you just quote one sentence.
Schieffer directly compared him with Obama with the notion Obama not getting shot down meant that McCain knew more about being Commander in Chief.
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that one sentence is important putting this into the context you wanted.
Shieffer was addressing all of Clark's amorphous assertions about what Obama has, as it relates to being President, and McCain somehow doesn't to include getting shot down.
| quote: | Gen. CLARK: Because in the matters of national security policy making, it's a matter of understanding risk, it's a matter of gauging your opponents and it's a matter of being held accountable. John McCain's never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the armed forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded wasn't a wartime squadron. He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, `I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not. Do you want to take the risk? What about your reputation? How do we handle it publicly?'
SCHIEFFER: Well...
Gen. CLARK: He hasn't made those calls, Bob. So...
SCHIEFFER: Well, General, maybe--could I just interrupt you?
Gen. CLARK: Sure.
SCHIEFFER: I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean...
Gen. CLARK: Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.
SCHIEFFER: Really? |
apparently you and Wes Clark have problems differentiating between anecdotal qualifications and the actual subject at hand.
Schieffer realized, as Clark was running down the list of intangible qualifications his man allegedly has that, IN ADDITION to actually never having those, Obama has never flown a jet and been shot down as well.
in Wes Clark's quest to obfuscate and contradict for his man he wouldn't let Schieffer finish-"Barack Obama has not had any of those experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down. I mean..." and he let Clark step right in it. then Clark changes the subject.
| quote: | | You never answered the question as to whether it is qualification. |
yes i did. for McCain, his military experience most certainly is a qualification. certainly not the only one, but most certainly is one.
Wes Clark, who once ran for the same office and was a decorated combat officer himself, for personal reasons obviously has a problem admitting that. for shame. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by mndeg
it's not taking anything away, |
from a logical POV you are. the experience makes the man. any man, and little else.
furthermore, it's illogical to separate emotions from the logic when faced with this kind of decision. |
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| Krypton |
| I'll say again, McCain is just another one of the old men figuring out ways to send young men to their deaths. Period. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
i'm not McCain's surrogate.
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Debatable |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
for McCain, his military experience most certainly is a qualification. certainly not the only one, but most certainly is one.
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What does it better prepare him for? What does it add to his judgment? Both of those, as opposed to someone who hadn't. |
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| Zild |
| My friend Jason was struck by lightining in 2004 while working as a security guard for a children's museuem. He should be president! |
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| Clovis |
Both Obama and McCain demonstrate a very poor understanding of the situation and issues we face in Iraq, but it really does not appear that serving in the military has done anything to better McCain's judgment, especially given his voting record on those matters.
| quote: | September 2007: McCain voted against the Webb amendment calling for adequate troop rest between deployments. At the time, nearly 65% of people polled in a CNN poll indicted that "things are going either moderately badly or very badly in Iraq.
July 2007: McCain voted against a plan to drawdown troop levels in Iraq. At the time, an ABC poll found that 63% thought the invasion was not worth it, and a CBS News poll found that 72% of respondents wanted troops out within 2 years.
March 2007: McCain was too busy to vote on a bill that would require the start of a drawdown in troop levels within 120 days with a goal of withdrawing nearly all combat troops within one year. Around this time, an NBC News poll found that 55% of respondents indicated that the US goal of achieving victory in Iraq is not possible. This number has not moved significantly since then.
February 2007: For such a strong supporter of the escalation, McCain didn’t even bother to show up and vote against a resolution condemning it. However, at the time a CNN poll found that only 16% of respondents wanted to send more troops to Iraq (that number has since declined to around 10%), while 60% said that some or all should be withdrawn. This number has since gone up to around 70%.
June 2006: McCain voted against a resolution that Bush start withdrawing troops but with no timeline to do so.
May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for health care facilities.
April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in FY 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
March 2004: McCain once again voted for abusive tax loopholes over veterans when he voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive tax loopholes. Jeez, McCain really loves those tax loopholes for corporations, since he voted for them over our veterans' needs.
October 2003: McCain voted to table an amendment by Senator Dodd that called for an additional $322,000,000 for safety equipment for United States forces in Iraq and to reduce the amount provided for reconstruction in Iraq by $322,000,000.
April 2003: McCain urged other Senate members to table a vote (which never passed) to provide more than $1 billion for National Guard and Reserve equipment in Iraq related to a shortage of helmets, tents, bullet-proof inserts, and tactical vests.
August 2001: McCain voted against increasing the amount available for medical care for veterans by $650,000,000. To his credit, he also voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, which he now supports making permanent, despite the dire financial condition this country is in, and despite the fact that he indicated in 2001 that these tax cuts unfairly benefited the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class. |
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| Shakka |
| Does the fact that Wesley Clark was fired from the army diminish his opinion of all things army related? Just sayin... |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
What does it better prepare him for? |
before being elected to Congress McCain, as an 06, after his Executive Officer and eventually Command of Replacement Air Group 174 in which he was executive to several thousand airmen and pilots and civilians and their families, served as the Pentagon's Naval liason officer to Congress. that pretty much speaks for itself as far as top executive level experience.
| quote: | | What does it add to his judgment? |
as CINC? loads. as a civilian executive in charge of the execution of law? not a whole lot really, but he has been a Senator for twenty odd years
| quote: | | Both of those, as opposed to kdsomeone who hadn't. |
thats what we're essentially talking about aren't we? given a choice between the two we have, for leader of the free world and all that that may entail, for this country's top Executive position, who is more qualified?
like i said many times here, McCain was never my first choice but i think the choice is fairly obvious unless you're a diehard champion of the intangible. and if, in fact, you are then why the hell are you asking these ridiculous questions in the first place? |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
thats what we're essentially talking about aren't we? given a choice between the two we have, for leader of the free world and all that that may entail, for this country's top Executive position, who is more qualified?
like i said many times here, McCain was never my first choice but i think the choice is fairly obvious unless you're a diehard champion of the intangible. and if, in fact, you are then why the hell are you asking these ridiculous questions in the first place? |
all this talk about qualifications. they're ALL qualified. Bush was less qualified than any of the current and previous presidential candidates. After 8 years of that the country is still standing. its an impossibility any of them could do a worse job
when you make the argument about a choice between the two why in the hell would anyone choose the candidate thats going to be a continuation of policies that have brought the country nothing but trouble? what is Bush's legacy? |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| If all it takes to be President is to get shot at by an enemy of the state, then we're gonna have a mighty big problem on our hands when all 100,000 soldiers in Iraq pass the age of 35. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
before being elected to Congress McCain, as an 06, after his Executive Officer and eventually Command of Replacement Air Group 174 in which he was executive to several thousand airmen and pilots and civilians and their families, served as the Pentagon's Naval liason officer to Congress. that pretty much speaks for itself as far as top executive level experience.
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The issue being talked about is his military experience as a soldier in a war, you'll get no argument from me that his experience as a high level officer is of value in administrative and executive affairs.
Apparently, Kerry's Vietnam service was of little to no value in the last election against the air guard dodging GWB. It would be nice if everyone could remain consistent on that. |
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