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Sharia Law Becomes Official in Britain (pg. 3)
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Obviously their rulings will have to be compatible with UK law
For example, if a woman agrees (!) that her husband can honour kill her because she had an affair, the man would still be prosecuted for murder even tho that "contract" was agreed in a court of arbitration
I can't really think of any rulings that these arbitration courts could pass that would be harmful to society? They are not going to be any different to any other court of arbitration so I'm not sure what the problem is. It's also worth pointing out that the British Jewish community has operated similar courts for years now and nobody got scared of them. The fact of the matter is, these arbitration courts are unlikely to change anything - they only apply to you if you want them to apply to you (and if you're already into Sharia law then you're most likely already living by its standards so nothing changes) |
it's no different in the US. As long as the agreement doesn't violate the law you can pretty much agree to whatever you want. That said, the article suggested they could arbitrate criminal cases, that clearly wouldn't be permitted in the US and I would be surprised if you could do so in the UK. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Someone who actually understands... ;)
I agree DrUg_Tit0.
I don't remember there being an open discussion, or anything addressed to the people asking if the law could kowtow to these minorities or act in such a Dhimmis-like fashion.
These people have used the law against itself to serve themselves towards an Orwellian future... |
I won the War on Terror, I stopped being frightened.
How about you? Its not the muslims we need to fear...... its the GOP, how about you drop the hate brother and come on over to the right side.... Look how they have you living man.... scared of the muslims... I was once like you too... scared of the oogy boogy muslim. ;)
Let them see where this takes them.. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
I won the War on Terror, I stopped being frightened.
How about you? Its not the muslims we need to fear...... its the GOP, how about you drop the hate brother and come on over to the right side.... Look how they have you living man.... scared of the muslims... I was once like you too... scared of the oogy boogy muslim. ;)
Let them see where this takes them.. |
Didn't you hear, they don't like our freedom, they want to take it away!! We have to fight them over there before they come here!! !! |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Didn't you hear, they don't like our freedom, they want to take it away!! We have to fight them over there before they come here!! !! |
while i do think the claims are extreme, i'm sure that many muslims wouldn't mind seeing our customs modified to fit their own. For example, the incidents with the mohammad cartoons in the danish newpaper. That's a pretty good example of how they want us to change for them (that could be veiwed as muslims wanting to take away our freedom). Admittedly though, many groups do similar things. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
I won the War on Terror, I stopped being frightened.
How about you? Its not the muslims we need to fear...... its the GOP, how about you drop the hate brother and come on over to the right side.... Look how they have you living man.... scared of the muslims... I was once like you too... scared of the oogy boogy muslim. ;)
Let them see where this takes them.. |
There's no hate in this thread at all so I'm not understand where you guys are going with this?
I'm just curious why they thought a separate parallel legal system was required just for themselves when the current one in place is the one they should be using when it's fine with every other ethnic group.
You have to admit this whole process was very underhanded and will most definately set a pressident. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Actually it does, women have property rights, inheritance rights, the right to choose their partner etc etc which they didn't enjoy before Islam, something women in the West have only enjoyed for less than a century (as opposed to 1400 years). Might want to do a little research before making hasty generalizations ;). |
Eh..I agree I made a hasty generalization as it does not include the whole of islamic world at every time in history.
The problem is that while women have those rights in theory (and you must admit those rights are often significantly lesser than the rights of their male counterparts), it's commonly a totally different matter in practice. I agree that it isn't true for the muslim world as a whole, but it is becoming an obvious trend. In fact a lot if it actually goes way beyond islam and its teachings. Sort of like christianity and the inquisition, it gets down to taking the worst out of the scriptures and applying it as harshly as possible, while allowing or endorsing every sort of misdeed that was not explicitely mentioned in the scriptures as forbidden.
Basically it all comes down to the problem islamic world has been facing for a long time now. The west suddenly leapt forward and the islamic world started deteriorating and going back. If I traveled 1000 years back in past and could choose where I wanted to live, I'd most certainly choose islamic countries over the western ones. But today I'd certainly do the opposite thing.
So when it comes to women rights, even though islamic world was ahead of the west for a pretty long time, the west took the lead in the last 50-100 years. And instead of following the good example, islamic world is struggling with radicalism instead. And it's that radicalism that I fear might get a boost by this act. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
But if that is the case, then what exactly will change in that woman's life? She will be forced to live by Sharia law now, and in those circumstances, where somebody is forced by duress to abide by the rulings of an arbitration panel, that would render the contract illegal under British law anyway. Arbitration courts are not courts of law, they have no influence over, and cannot effect, British law. They are simply a means of bringing two parties in dispute together in agreement without it having to go to a court of law.
There is a single law for everybody! This is not a separate layer of law or anything like that, it is a dispute resolution service, nothing more, nothing less. |
Heh, sort of a non-binding muslim marriage counciling? That's fine, but then it shouldn't be institutionalized by the state nor be called a sharia court. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Eh..I agree I made a hasty generalization as it does not include the whole of islamic world at every time in history.
The problem is that while women have those rights in theory (and you must admit those rights are often significantly lesser than the rights of their male counterparts), it's commonly a totally different matter in practice. I agree that it isn't true for the muslim world as a whole, but it is becoming an obvious trend. In fact a lot if it actually goes way beyond islam and its teachings. Sort of like christianity and the inquisition, it gets down to taking the worst out of the scriptures and applying it as harshly as possible, while allowing or endorsing every sort of misdeed that was not explicitely mentioned in the scriptures as forbidden.
Basically it all comes down to the problem islamic world has been facing for a long time now. The west suddenly leapt forward and the islamic world started deteriorating and going back. If I traveled 1000 years back in past and could choose where I wanted to live, I'd most certainly choose islamic countries over the western ones. But today I'd certainly do the opposite thing.
So when it comes to women rights, even though islamic world was ahead of the west for a pretty long time, the west took the lead in the last 50-100 years. And instead of following the good example, islamic world is struggling with radicalism instead. |
Yeah, there's is tons of ed up where ever the fundamentalist are in control, like the Wahabis and the Taliban for example. Ironically and sadly, these groups and distorted ideologies are also relatively recent in a historical context. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Eh..I agree I made a hasty generalization as it does not include the whole of islamic world at every time in history.
The problem is that while women have those rights in theory (and you must admit those rights are often significantly lesser than the rights of their male counterparts), it's commonly a totally different matter in practice. I agree that it isn't true for the muslim world as a whole, but it is becoming an obvious trend. In fact a lot if it actually goes way beyond islam and its teachings. Sort of like christianity and the inquisition, it gets down to taking the worst out of the scriptures and applying it as harshly as possible, while allowing or endorsing every sort of misdeed that was not explicitely mentioned in the scriptures as forbidden.
Basically it all comes down to the problem islamic world has been facing for a long time now. The west suddenly leapt forward and the islamic world started deteriorating and going back. If I traveled 1000 years back in past and could choose where I wanted to live, I'd most certainly choose islamic countries over the western ones. But today I'd certainly do the opposite thing.
So when it comes to women rights, even though islamic world was ahead of the west for a pretty long time, the west took the lead in the last 50-100 years. And instead of following the good example, islamic world is struggling with radicalism instead. |
Its sad to see that radicalism permeate through to the moderate Western ones that's for sure... |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
while i do think the claims are extreme, i'm sure that many muslims wouldn't mind seeing our customs modified to fit their own. For example, the incidents with the mohammad cartoons in the danish newpaper. That's a pretty good example of how they want us to change for them (that could be veiwed as muslims wanting to take away our freedom). Admittedly though, many groups do similar things. |
I wouldn't say they want us to change for them. Rather I'de say, their perception of a Western war on Islam is solidified by things such as that Mohammed cartoons. They perceive their religion as under attack. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Yeah, there's is tons of ed up where ever the fundamentalist are in control, like the Wahabis and the Taliban for example. Ironically and sadly, these groups and distorted ideologies are also relatively recent in a historical context. |
Seems a lot of religions prefer to get into the dark ages at around 1000-1500 years of age :)
Romans slaughtered christians when they were around 1000 years old, christians slaughtered everyone they could get hands on back in the 1400's, and now islamic loonies are gathering strength right as the religion is in its 1300's... |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I wouldn't say they want us to change for them. Rather I'de say, their perception of a Western war on Islam is solidified by things such as that Mohammed cartoons. They perceive their religion as under attack. |
only because they haven't gotten their minds around ideas like freedom speech/the press, and that institutions like newspapers are completely independent of government or citizens in that country. and you know why that is? because people in the west keep pandering to their ideas with institutions like...special religious arbitrations!
who'll ever learn that religion is bollocks if we keep making special cases for people? |
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