|
Sharia Law Becomes Official in Britain (pg. 4)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
First off, it's just a picture that was randomly googled and second, this is hardly 'unsubstantiated'... :rolleyes: |
The thread title is "Sharia law becomes official in Britain" - that is simply not true. Therefore the whole premise of this thread is based on an unsubstantiated smear from a right wing newspaper... |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
it's no different in the US. As long as the agreement doesn't violate the law you can pretty much agree to whatever you want. That said, the article suggested they could arbitrate criminal cases, that clearly wouldn't be permitted in the US and I would be surprised if you could do so in the UK. |
There is no way that ANYONE other than her Maj will be permitted to pass judgements on criminal cases |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Heh, sort of a non-binding muslim marriage counciling? That's fine, but then it shouldn't be institutionalized by the state nor be called a sharia court. |
Unfortunately it already has been 'institutionalised' for over a decade as that's when the Arbitration Act (1996) dates from. There has been no change in the law to accommodate this, rather, Muslims have taken advantage of existing legislation to do this, as other religious groups have done. I would guess there is nothing to stop Muslims in America doing the same. As for the name, well, "Sharia courts" is what the right wing media have called them (;)), their actual name, the name they call themselves is the "Muslim Arbitration Tribunal"
Here's a few quotes from their website (you can choose whether to believe them or not...):
| quote: | We understand that some people will be concerned about taking a case to MAT thinking it may be just a group of Imams sitting in a mosque. Will they be biased against women? Will they understand young people? Will they understand contemporary problems in modern Britain? The short answer is we will have young qualified people, male and female, sitting as members of the Arbitration Tribunal. They are not scholars or lawyers from abroad but from here. In order to promote harmony, we intend to provide female lawyers to sit as the legally qualified member as often as possible. There will be no race or sex discrimination in this organisation!
We believe in the co-existence of both English law and personal religious laws. We believe that the law of the land in which we live is binding upon each citizen, and we are not attempting to impose Shariah upon anyone. Shariah does however have its place in this society where it is our personal and religious law. What a great achievement it will be if we can produce a result to the satisfaction of both English and Islamic law! |
You may also find their report on forced marriages interesting...
http://www.matribunal.com/downloads...ge%20Report.pdf |
|
|
| LazFX |
Another POV
British muslim MP says that his fellow Muslims need to escape from their victim mentality and stop blowing up at the slightest provocation...
I think there are some here that should listen to him
| quote: |
Muslims have 'victim mentality'
British Muslims are guilty of a "victim mentality" and should take greater responsibility for their lives, a Muslim Labour MP has argued.
Sadiq Khan also said more British Muslims must tackle sexism, learn English and condemn forced marriages.
The representative for Tooting, south London, made his comments in a report for the Fabian Society think tank.
Muslim youth organisation the Ramadhan Foundation said Mr Khan was out of touch with grassroots Muslims.
'Liberal anxiety'
In his report, entitled Fairness, Not Favours, Mr Khan said: "We need to take more responsibility for our own families, ignore those who propagate conspiracy theories, and above all we need to leave behind our victim mentality.
"We must all agree that honour killings are murder and forced marriages are kidnapping. These traditions have no place here or anywhere."
He also claimed that Muslims in Britain are pre-occupied by foreign policy and not concerned enough about day-to-day political issues.
"Muslims need to recognise childcare is as important as Kashmir," he said.
| quote: | We do not have a victim mentality but are victims of this government's failure
Mohammed Shafiq
Ramadhan Foundation |
Assistant whip Mr Khan said there was no question that people coming to live in Britain should learn English and he criticised "liberal anxiety" about the issue.
"The requirement to learn English is not colonial. English is a passport to participation in mainstream society - jobs, education and even being able to use health services," he said.
"Having poor English creates multiple barriers to work; it decreases your confidence, makes it harder to gain other skills and qualifications and increases the likelihood of unemployment and your withdrawal from the labour market."
Islamophobia
Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said the "real issues" holding Muslims back were "poverty, crime, racism and Islamophobia".
He said: "We do not have a victim mentality but are victims of this government's failure to deal with real issues, issues around poverty, tackling the underlying causes of why there is terrorism in this country."
He said the Ramadhan Foundation had a long history of opposing forced marriages and so-called honour killings.
Mr Shafiq added there was no conflict between a concern for the fate of Muslims abroad and an awareness of the domestic political issues of Britain.
| quote: | Muslims are facing increasing amounts of Islamophobia and discrimination so if some have a victim mentality, can you blame them?
Shaista Gohir
Muslim Voice UK |
However Shaista Gohir, director of both Muslim Voice UK and Muslim Women's Network UK, agreed that more needed to be done by Muslims to tackle sexism, forced marriages and honour killings.
She also agreed it was important for British Muslims to speak English.
Ms Gohir, who is a government adviser on Muslim women, told the BBC: "Not being able to speak English is not only a barrier to integration but is also disempowering for individuals, so I agree that Muslims who do not speak English need to make more of an effort to learn."
But she said it was an over-generalisation to say Muslims had a victim mentality.
She said: "Muslims are facing increasing amounts of Islamophobia and discrimination so, if some have a victim mentality, can you blame them?"
"Yes Muslims do need to take greater responsibility of their lives but so do other communities that suffer problems such as under-age drinking and increased gun and knife crime."
In July the government launched a package of measures responding to calls from Muslim communities to support the promotion of citizenship and shared values, said a Department of Communities and Local Government spokesman.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/...ews/7619642.stm
|
|
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
British muslim MP says that his fellow Muslims need to escape from their victim mentality and stop blowing up at the slightest provocation... |
good choice of words! :p |
|
|
| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
There is no way that ANYONE other than her Maj will be permitted to pass judgements on criminal cases |
As i expected. The american judicial system was modelled on the british system, so i was highly skeptical that our ways deviated that much in the past hundred or so years. |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Ah but that's not your source tho, is it, Mr Moonbattery?
Anyway, nobody's having a go at you for not using a source (that we all found anyway using the techniques you describe above), they're having a go at you for posting unsubstantiated e... |
The only thing unsubstantiated are your comments.
You live in the country and you don't even know what's going on!
If I'm hated because I'm guilty of pointing out what's actually happening then so be it, at least I won't be guilty to pandering to the guise of 'Multiculturalism'
| quote: |
Sharia courts operating in Britain
Sharia courts have been operating in Britain to rule on disputes between Muslims for more than a year, it has emerged.
By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent
Last Updated: 10:55AM BST 16 Sep 2008
Five sharia courts have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester and Nuneaton, Warwickshire. The government has quietly sanctioned that their rulings are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court. Previously, the rulings were not binding and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.
Lawyers have issued grave warnings about the dangers of a dual legal system and the disclosure drew criticism from Opposition leaders.
Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: "If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so."
Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, added: "I think it's appalling. I don't think arbitration that is done by sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state."
Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and inheritance to nuisance neighbours.
It has also emerged that tribunal courts have settled six cases of domestic violence between married couples, working in tandem with the police investigations.
Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said that sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals under a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.
The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.
The disclosures come after Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, sparked a national debate and calls for his resignation for saying that the establishment of sharia in the future "seems unavoidable" in Britain.
In July, Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers, the Lord Chief Justice agreed that Muslims in Britain should be able to live according to Islamic law to decide financial and marital disputes.
Mr Siddiqi said he expected the courts to handle a greater number of "smaller" criminal cases in coming years as more Muslim clients approach them. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.
"All we are doing is regulating community affairs in these cases," said Mr Siddiqi, chairman of the governing council of the tribunal.
There are concerns for women suffering under the Islamic laws, which favours men.
Mr Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.
The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.
In the six cases of domestic violence, Mr Siddiqi said the judges ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders. There was no further punishment.
In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.
Mr Siddiqi said that in the domestic violence cases, the advantage was that marriages were saved and couples given a second chance
|
>>Source<< |
|
|
| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
 ;) |
LOL
A picture speaks a thousand words |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
The only thing unsubstantiated are your comments.
You live in the country and you don't even know what's going on!
If I'm hated because I'm guilty of pointing out what's actually happening then so be it, at least I won't be guilty to pandering to the guise of 'Multiculturalism'
>>Source<< |
Quoting the same article (albeit from a variety of right-wing British newspapers who aren't exactly known for their objectivity when commenting on Islam or people of funny coloured skin) over and over again does not make the premise of this thread any truer than it ever was. The only people referring to "Sharia courts" are the right-wing media and you. These arbitration panels are doing nothing that isn't already permitted in British (or most likely American) law. If you actually read the website of this organisation or read what the founder says, then you'll see they're actually in a rather good position to help vulnerable women who, with the weight of religious rulings behind them, might actually start to alter their situation. But you're too pig headed to read past a prejudiced, untrue, attention grabbing headline aren't you? |
|
|
| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Quoting the same article (albeit from a variety of right-wing British newspapers who aren't exactly known for their objectivity when commenting on Islam or people of funny coloured skin) over and over again does not make the premise of this thread any truer than it ever was. The only people referring to "Sharia courts" are the right-wing media and you. These arbitration panels are doing nothing that isn't already permitted in British (or most likely American) law. If you actually read the website of this organisation or read what the founder says, then you'll see they're actually in a rather good position to help vulnerable women who, with the weight of religious rulings behind them, might actually start to alter their situation. But you're too pig headed to read past a prejudiced, untrue, attention grabbing headline aren't you? |
Instead of filling hot balloons why not post a 'legitimate' source and prove me wrong then?
I'm certainly not convinced otherwise... |
|
|
| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
good choice of words! :p |
LOL yes |
|
|
| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Instead of filling hot balloons why not post a 'legitimate' source and prove me wrong then?
I'm certainly not convinced otherwise... |
Why don't you read your OWN sources and then you'll know these are not actually courts in the proper sense, but arbitration panels. FFS it's exactly as I said above, you've read nothing more than a shock headline designed to trick simple people into believing that Sharia courts are in operation in the UK and it works for people like you. FYI I already DID post some sources up for you to read, the actual website of this organisation who do not refer to themselves as Sharia courts in the slightest.
My sources prove you wrong, everybody's rational comments on this thread prove you wrong and your own sources even prove you wrong
That you still believe it shows you're either thick as two short planks or your hatred of Muslims has got to such a level that you've completely closed your mind to any possibility that some Muslims might not be trying to kill you in your sleep |
|
|
|
|
