|
Anyone watch the final presidential debate tonight? (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| element-y |
yea i did watch the debate and i still have to disagree. Look, 99 percent of what politicians say when campaigning is bull. It is so far from the truth of what is actually possible to get done. It is a tactic to get votes - a way of attracting voters by promises.
to start, obama does not want to withdraw immediately. It is a pphased withdrawl based on how things are doing. He hopes to get everything in order in 16 months, but if things change, so will the policy. Mccain is also by the way for a phased withdrawl now that patreus is for it as well because the surge has worked.
as for relieving people, that is another issue. Basically people will get taxed. Who are you to decide who is in the working class group and the corporation group? do corporation workers not face the same burden as others?
As for VP, yet again, who are you to say who is and isnt qualified? why doesnt obama go after palin - as with tonights debate? Because when the question is then flipped on him, he faces the same thing. He campaigned this long and has been asked and answered questions, debated, etc. But does that make him a candidate more so than palin? Think about why he didnt respond to that question but rather brought up biden again.
Go to both the obama website and mccain website and then look for the issues section. Many supporters of each dont actually know where their politician stands on issues. For example almot 99 percent of obama supporters didnt know he supports keeping the missle defence system even though russia and many others are opposed it. That is just one example.
Again i am not saying i prefer mccain and palin, in fact i hate palin. However, these two candidates really dont differ as much as people think. |
|
|
| R!CH |
well i don't know what more to say other than if you don't see a fundamental difference between the obama and mccain, then perhaps you don't have any appreciation for the nuance of politics. they are very different people with very different approaches to nearly everything. each would lead the country in about as different a direction as bush and gore would have (can you see us invading iraq, backing out of kyoto, marginalizing the un and giving the oil industry huge tax breaks under a president gore?).
do you have any proof that suggests obama is just blowing sunshine up our asses in everything he says or is this just your cynical world view at play?
obama's one perceived weakness is foreign policy/defense so of course the outside strategy in this respect is to not stray too far from mccain's rhetoric because america views mccain as strong on defense. but if you want to know the truth of their positions, just look at the voting record. a key difference is obama's willingness to talk to iran whereas mccain takes the bush approach of ignoring the diplomatic channel.
they both tout renewables because that's an easy bandwagon to jump on, but there's also a big difference in policy here if you paid attention tonight. mccain just read off a list of energy sources whereas obama addressed the transportation issue, which is at the heart of the matter and explained where we need to be in that industry.
as far as going for the throat when it comes to palin, have you asked yourself if that even necessary? people are already skeptical of this woman's ability and going negative like mccain has doesn't bode well with obama's criticism of washington politics. frankly it hasn't worked well for the old man either.
tonight both candidates had the opportunity to sell themselves to america. obama did so by outlining his policies. mccain did so by misrepresenting obama's policies in place of a substantial one of his own. he offered more criticisms than he did solutions and the solutions he gave have no real impact. one candidate was being diplomatic and disciplined about it, the other was being inflammatory and irritable. are you telling me these two guys would run the country down the same course in 4 years?
"as for vp who are you to say who is or isn't qualified?" lol, REALLY???
i'm convinced at this point you're just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. |
|
|
| element-y |
have you ever read any philosophy stuff regarding politics, running the country, and war and what not? Its just that in reality both woudnt run the country totally differently. for example, healthcare - do you really think what obama says is possible in his first year? or even in his first term? think about it. Everyone would have gone into iraq, even obama. if it wasnt at the time we did, it would have been after some more UN backing. But eventually we would have because no matter if you are a liberal or a realist, going into iraq is something you would do. Study realists and liberal philosophy to see what i am talking about. May not have been nukes but would have been then focused more so on removing saddam. liberals and realists eventually for the most part will act the same way just portray it in a different matter. Same applies for the others, just think of ways of getting those done using both realistic ideas and liberal ideas.
as for obama blowing stuff up, the case is that promises are great and all, really, but you need to pass them through others first. And even with a dem congress, it wont be easy. You cant have all these drastic "changes" at once. It hurts the economy in a huge way. Look at bailout for example.
with renewables, they both will do the same thing man. one will drill, one wont. One will use nuclear other wont. But both will go for what is best for the country. For the most part, it is up to congress to step up on this issue.
with palin, once again man. where is this doubt coming from? If she were given the same time obama had to run, people would think different. As with obama when he first came into things for this campaign, what was the majority of peoples reaction - who is this noob? People had doubts sky high. Only after a long time of campainging did people start changing their minds and all of a suddden start asking people why they have doubts over obama - and coming up with all this crap like how they followed him throughout his years, etc.
i am not arguing for the sake of it, its just that passion is getting in the way of things i think for many many americans and is blinding them from a lot of things. - look up clausewetiz.
The idea here is that people on opposite sides pick up the few differences and run with those as if the two are extremes. Go back and count the number of times obama said he agrees to mccain in the debates. he would try to shove a disagree here and there, but the agreements far overpower the disagreements.
And as for me not appreciating the system, please man. This is my field of study and most likely getting a job in dc soon. It fascinates me how with enough spin and eloquency, everything can sound drastically different when it isnt in reality. When a situation occurs, do you really think the candidates will disagree? a new attack, a weather problem, etc.? Both will do what is best, both need the support of congress, both rely on others besides their own opinions. |
|
|
| bigperf |
Obama is considering setting up camp in Georgia, West Virginia, Kentucky, and North Dakota...Damn, winning any of these would be rubbing it in!
He wants total annihilation. :whip: :whip: :whip:
We all know Obama is going to win the Popular vote, can he hit 400 electoral votes!?!?
Has not happened since the US elected George Bush president in 1988... Yes, Daddy Bush got 400 votes, must be great getting the Reagan vote, i think Dan Quayle could have been at the top of the ticket in 1988 and he would have won lol.
speaking of quayle
I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican.
Dan Quayle
I have made good judgements in the Past. I have made good judgements in the Future.
Dan Quayle
People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history.
Dan Quayle
Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.
Dan Quayle
The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Dan Quayle may or may not make.
Dan Quayle
- More quotations on: [Quotations]
The future will be better tomorrow.
Dan Quayle
- More quotations on: [The Future]
We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward.
Dan Quayle
We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe.
Dan Quayle
We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made.
Dan Quayle
- More quotations on: [Mistakes]
Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts.
Dan Quayle
What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.
Dan Quayle
When I have been asked during these last weeks who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct and simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame.
Dan Quayle
[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system.
Dan Quayle
Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.
Dan Quayle, 11/30/88
One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
Dan Quayle, 12/6/89
Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it.
Dan Quayle, 5/20/92 (reported in Esquire, 8/92)
I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change.
Dan Quayle, 5/22/89
Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe.
Dan Quayle, 8/11/89
Murphy Brown is doing better than I am. At least she knows she still has a job next year.
Dan Quayle, 8/18/92
The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century.
Dan Quayle, 9/15/88
Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children.
Dan Quayle, 9/18/90
We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world.
Dan Quayle, 9/21/88
We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur.
Dan Quayle, 9/22/90
For NASA, space is still a high priority.
Dan Quayle, 9/5/90
Public speaking is very easy.
Dan Quayle, to reporters in 10/88
I stand by all the misstatements that I've made.
Dan Quayle, to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/89
It was just a job. It wasn't any special interest in consumer affairs. I needed a paycheck and the Attorney General said that I would be best to go down there, because he knew I was anti-consumer.
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), talking about his job as Chief investigator, consumer protection division of the Indiana Attorney General's office from 1970-1971
You have a part-time job, and that's better than no job at all.
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), after the manager of the Burger King had said that the jobs offered were part-time minimum wage jobs which didn't pay enough to live on, and that "It's hard to find people who want to actually show up
[The U.S. victory in Gulf war was] a stirring victory for the forces of aggression.
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), 4/11/91 (reported in Esquire, 8/92)
Vietnam is a jungle. You had jungle warfare. Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, you have sand. [There is no need to worry about a protracted war because] from a historical basis, Middle East conflicts do not last a long time.
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), 10/2/90 (reported in Esquire, 8/92)
I don't want to be charged with child abuse.
Pat Buchanan, saying he did not want to get into a war of words with Vice President Dan Quayle
He doesn't have the greatest smarts in the world. His main interests in school were broads and booze.
J. Danforth Quayle's Father, 08/23/88
People that are really weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history.
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), 09/88
Make no mistake about it: Operation Desert Storm truly was a victory of good over evil, of freedom over tyranny, of peace over war.
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), remarks at Arlington National Cemetery
My fellow astronauts...
Dan Quayle (1947 - ), beginning a speech at an Apollo 11 anniversary celebration
It is wonderful to be here in the great state of Chicago.
Dan Quayle (1947 - )
If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure.
Dan Quayle (1947 - )
YES, ladies and gentlemen THIS MAN WAS ONE HEARTBEAT AWAY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE! |
|
|
| element-y |
| Yea obama is destroying all the swing states and more. However, a lot of this isn't him per say, but rather uneducated people relating the economy to mccain when the two have nothing to do with one another. Morons will say well he voted 4 out of 5 on what bush put forth, however obama did 2 out of the 5. Also, many are forgetting the 2 year dem majority. Its just the luck of the campaign. Happens so many times. That is why clinton at first got elected as well - not for economic reason, but the same thing - luck of what is going on while running. If it were not for the economy, the polls would be back to being pretty close as they were a few months ago. |
|
|
| starboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by element-y
That is why clinton at first got elected as well - not for economic reason, but the same thing - luck of what is going on while running. |
No. Clinton got elected because he understood the econamy and middle class much like obama does.
On the flip side, one can benefit by stealing an election like bush did in 00. I would much rather be bush's economy rather than the clinton era, all those jobs!!!! :nervous: surplus? :nervous: :nervous: 90's > now |
|
|
| element-y |
| quote: | Originally posted by starboy
No. Clinton got elected because he understood the econamy and middle class much like obama does.
On the flip side, one can benefit by stealing an election like bush did in 00. I would much rather be bush's economy rather than the clinton era, all those jobs!!!! :nervous: surplus? :nervous: :nervous: 90's > now |
actually, if you look up what his advisor and speech writer has to say about why he won the first time, it is something different. He also was at the time not very experienced compared to other candidates, and had the luck of the time. |
|
|
| element-y |
and yea comparing the economy being well of in the 90s do clinton is ludicrous. Are you familiar sir with the dot com boom? Yea, clinton had a lot to do with that huh? Wait, no, his VP did, since he did help invent the thing right?
The economy is a fluctuation. Yea, there is spending greater at times than others, but if you are trying to look at it by conserving, obama will be spending more. At times the economy is fine and at times it is not. Politicans do have an impact on things yes, that is for sure, but when nothing is going on, the political realm for hte most part is stable (since clinton didnt get in the way of much that was asked of him at the time such as with international issues), the economy will most likely be well off. He was riding the dot com train, pure and simple. If he did go to iraq fully like we are in now, like what many advisors asked of him to do (and if you dont know, he did send air attacks constantly), the dot com boom would have come to a hault, just like the economy is now. |
|
|
| delusional |
Obama = Warren Buffet's backing
McCain = Meg Whitmabobble schmobble |
|
|
| Dj Blurr |
After watching the debate last night, I realized McCains upper lip didnt move much when he talked.
I noticed he likes to write his thoughts down before he speaks, and IMO, Obama looked more tuned in towards the audience with the camera facing him sqaure most of the time.
I like the people they had at the end voicing their opinions amongst majority. |
|
|
| element-y |
| yea, obama is clearly far better of a speaker than mccain is, and is far more eloquent. So when something like this happens, where the two are so opposite in how the express opinion, the eloquent one comes out on top by far. You can avoid the attacks, respond to attacks, and attack, and still come of looking cool. You might be saying the exact same thing almost, but in how you phrase it, everything changes. |
|
|
| the_jerk |
| quote: | Originally posted by element-y
yea, obama is clearly far better of a speaker than mccain is, and is far more eloquent. So when something like this happens, where the two are so opposite in how the express opinion, the eloquent one comes out on top by far. You can avoid the attacks, respond to attacks, and attack, and still come of looking cool. You might be saying the exact same thing almost, but in how you phrase it, everything changes. |
This thread was very interesting in the start, but I lost interest once you said there wasn't much difference in the 2 candidates.
McCain was a desperate man last night. His reputation for having a short fuse was apparent. Not sure if any of you have seen the Rolling Stone piece on him and his background. It's long, but interesting...
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/st..._maverick/print |
|
|
|
|
