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Trentemøller- an example of pure talent!!!! (pg. 11)
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| elFreak |
what makes one music good and the other not good?
if you can answer this and back it up with absolute proof you win the internet.
you do not have to agree, the world does not revolve around your tastes. |
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| sljiva |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
what makes one music good and the other not good?
if you can answer this and back it up with absolute proof you win the internet.
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Yeah righ. You prove me that music from your sets is better than, let's say, epic trance and back it up with absolute proof and I'll never post on this board again. We all talk bull and we know it... |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by sljiva
Can't really speak in Petran's name, but I think he can't accept the fact that so much good music is being overlooked today, just because people are concentrating too much on this whole mnml/tech scene which is pretty miss-ey these days. I felt that way too some time ago, but I really don't care anymore.
For example let's take that Derek Carr's album which I recommended in another thread. If that album was released 10 or 15 years ago, it would be considered classic these days, simply because it is brilliant and could stand among John Beltran's, B12's or Kirk Degiorgio's best work from that time. Shamely, these days this kind of sound is not in the spotlight anymore (even with techno fans), and a lot of people will not hear it (even if some of us try hard to promote it). But they sure will hear new Radio Slave tune which they'll forget in two months...
You could say it's all about taste again, but I don't agree |
i think there's too much fuss about this. good music is good music. everyone knows dance music is 95% :p It's just dance music and doesn't purport to be anything else - except in some cases, and that's troublesome. This is my main complaint with things like epic trance, prog and a lot of deep house. it looks, sounds, and smells like music, but it's not really.
Reminds me of a quote from Sufi Inayat Khan's "Mysticism of Music" where he deplores Jazz.
| quote: | In India musicians are now dying out because of lack of appreciation. Those potentates, those Gurus, those teachers of high inspiration who lived in the past, appreciated this music. But even in India people are becoming industrialized and more materialistic, and music is dying. There are very few now of those musicians of former times who would make all those who listened spellbound; they hardly exist any longer. Among millions there are perhaps three or four and they will have vanished in a few years. Maybe one day the Western world will awaken to India's music as now the West is awakening to the poetry of the East, and beginning to appreciate such works as those of Rabindranath Tagore. There will come a time when they will ask for music of that kind too, and then it will not be found, it will be too late. But there is no doubt that if that music, which is magic and which is built on a psychological basis is introduced in the West, it will root out all such things as jazz. People seem to spoil their senses. This music is destroying their delicacy of sense. Thousands every day are dancing to jazz music and they forget the effect it has upon their spirit, upon their mind, upon their delicate senses.
There was a prince of Rampur who wanted to study music with a great teacher. But the teacher knew the character of the prince who was fond of music, and he understood that many musicians would want to show their talents before him. He said, 'I can only teach you on one condition: I do not want to hear any musician who is not an accomplished artist, because your sense of music must not be destroyed; it must be preserved for delicate music, it must be able to appreciate the fine intricacies.'
When the education of the public destroys the delicacy of its musical appreciation, it cannot help the fact that it does not like listening to real music but prefers jazz. Instead of going forward, it is going backward. And if music which is the central theme of the whole human culture is not helping people to go forward, it is a great pity. |
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/II/II_9.htm |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
everyone knows dance music is 95% |
You could say this about all other genres too.
Music is music. Whether it is good depends on how a group of people agrees to judge that... |
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| elFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by sljiva
Yeah righ. You prove me that music from your sets is better than, let's say, epic trance and back it up with absolute proof and I'll never post on this board again. We all talk bull and we know it... |
woooosh.
the point is i am not sitting here telling you it is better than anything, simply my taste. You are the the one making the this music is argument.
so why is it other than your personal opinion?
| quote: | Originally posted by sljiva
You could say it's all about taste again, but I don't agree |
this is why i asked for concrete proof that is unbiased of your personal opinion.
you can't prove it
"the world does not revolve around your opinion" |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
woooosh.
the point is i am not sitting here telling you it is better than anything, simply my taste. You are the the one making the this music is argument. |
Yeah, it's not like you're dismissive or condescending of fans of epic trance on a regular basis or anything, is it?
The point which you "woooshed" over is that you act like you listen to verifiably good music and other people listen to music on a regular basis. Dropping that and suddenly being all humble "at the end of the day it's just a matter of opinion" to suit your argument is just going to smack of hypocrisy. And don't wheel out that bull about trolling, because you quite obviously believe in what you say when you slate trance, and the fact you do it for a rise is incidental. |
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| elFreak |
i do slate trance for a rise, the funny part is i am willing to bet i have BOUGHT more of it in the 15 years i have been buying records than most of the mp3 kids on here.
music discussion takes itself too seriously here, and everyone in the "circle jerk clic" has played on it from day one, even though simple post searching of the members in question will prove that they all gave trance a lot of creedence in the past.
the running joke has been to apply the method used by those who listen to only trance, the same exact thing they are doing in a different way.
(ie : pretending that what we listen to is the best.)
none of us really care what people think, and this is why the trolling of you guys ad nauseum has been so successful. Today just happens to be a day i am bored and making this argument in consequence.
"let he who cast the first stone..."
you guys are all guilty of the same us "trolls", "elitists","circle jerkers"...get accused of being, the only difference is that you take yourselves too seriously to realize the epic piss that we are taking. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
You could say this about all other genres too.
Music is music. Whether it is good depends on how a group of people agrees to judge that... |
hmm
not really
for popular music, yes
not classical indian ragas |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
none of us really care what people think, and this is why the trolling of you guys ad nauseum has been so successful. Today just happens to be a day i am bored and making this argument in consequence.
"let he who cast the first stone..."
you guys are all guilty of the same us "trolls", "elitists","circle jerkers"...get accused of being, the only difference is that you take yourselves too seriously to realize the epic piss that we are taking. |
I don't know why the you're saying "you" as if I've ever been one of those people. I usually get thrown into the "elitist haters" crowd, actually.
Saying "It's all just a matter of taste" is pretty much bull anyway. It's the kind of argument Harry Potter kids make to try and say their favourite books are just as good as Joyce. There's always a critical framework that exists for a reason and if you want to disregard part or all of it you'd better have a good reason. Resorting back to the safe-zone of taste is usually the tactic of those with poor taste. |
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| elFreak |
| i meant you as in you take yourself too seriously. |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
what makes one music good and the other not good?
if you can answer this and back it up with absolute proof you win the internet.
you do not have to agree, the world does not revolve around your tastes. |
What makes one music good and the other not good? Do you want to compare the music featured in your sets with a typical Blue Amazon track as featured in System-J's sets? Well, Blue Amazon have complex layered tracks with specific melodies, chords and pads (wow! music with melody and chords!), nicely engineered effects and samples which fit with the track as a whole, driving rhtyhms which seem to go somewhere rather than just being there, and an overall high level of both musicianship and production.
Typical Black Sun Machine track? Random disturbing glitches, out of place funkless rhythms, complete lack of melody and musicianship and hence zero emotion, and overall cheap level of production which is promoted as "cool" and "avantgarde". is promoted as the new gold. I always wandered why one has to pay for those tracks. How is to pay and download all those tracks on beatport, week by week month after month? You probably end-up with a hard-drive full of countless, low-musical-quality mp3s with zero value (musical or as a medium) which just take some space in a hard-drive.Why not make it yourself? Ten tracks at FL a week. Easy, dirty and fast(and cheap!). No musical knowledge is needed, only some basic production skills.
Why they are not gonna be remembered? According to cognitive psychology,the degree of a memory trace's strength depends on some specific experiential features of the (in that case)auditory episode, such as strength of emotional reaction, distinctiveness, novelty, saliency,specificity and elaboration, as well as primacy and recency(what is perceived/encoded as coming first and what is perceived/encoded as coming last, plus a few others)
What does this music contain? None of these features whatsoever. This music is not meant to be emotional, each of these minimal tracks are not distinctive and can't be seperated from each other, there is nothing to make them stand-out from the rest and hence make them salient, a specific recognisable and elaborate musical form is absent and well, you can find some novel things such as weird disturbing samples which can cotnribute to a negative memory trace (if such a thing exists!). Why this music will be forgotten? Because its not of high quality and guess what, quality (as translated in the features i desrcibed-complexity and level of musicianship)) correlates with the experiential impression and the cognitive factors i described before and experiential impression and the cognitive factors i described before correlate with memory (strength).
Blue Amazon share some of these features and hence are remembered (we don't care about the number of people rememberering them or the fact that they don't sell at all, they are still remembered. Beethoven is the most famous musician in the world but the latest album of Madonna had probably multiple sales in comparison to the total Beethoven albums as sold by Deutsche Grammophon during 2008). Underworld share these features and also have the advantage of "primacy", that is, they are perceived as some of the first EDM pioneers, thats why they are usually even more remembered, more so than Blue Amazon (and we are always talking about intra-EDM comparisons not EDM with other genres of music).
One Night Stand Music. This is how i call it. Forgettable cheap mindless tracks which are made by the bucketload, played in some random night pleasing some random drunk clubber only to be replaced by a similar random track the month after.
Will Samim, Dahlback,Radio Slave or Deadmau5 be remembered? Hell no. Maybe people will hopefully remember the dark medieval "minimal" times of EDM during the 00s. Will Orbital, Underworld and Leftfield be remembered? Hell Yeah. You probably have figured out why by now. Its common sense but yeah.
Why am i writing all these? Because i can't stand anymore f*cking Radio Slave, Deadmau5, Samim's or whoever ****buttler's (picked that from the CoR thanks!) poitnless music. I can't stand the fact that good music is overlooked (as Sljiva stated). I hate the fact that because of this y EDM state we are in, good music has a lower chance to be produced. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Apparently you've been trolling me ad nauseum. Remind me of that. |
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