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Mormon Church to Lose Tax Exempt Status by Campaigning for Yes on Prop 8? (pg. 2)
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| selfEvolution |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
There are clearly a lot of people who need to be educated to the real facts surrounding the matter before a truly democratic decision can be made. |
Well stated Rich. The best Democracy is a well educated one. I am able to have intelligent debates with only a few of my "conservative" -leaning friends. Most of the others stoop to quoting the bible, Fox so-called "news" or Rush Limbaugh, who's claim to fame is that he lied every day that the world will fall apart during the eight years Clinton was in office.
The truth is it turned out to be some of the best eight years in this nation's history, especially when contrasted with the other eight years of Limbaugh's hero, George W. Bush. Bush in turn proudly boasted that he uses "gut instinct" and "common sense" to "run things". Even Republican leaders such as Colin Powell and Scott McClellan have conceded the disastrous consequences of Bush's "instincts". They both opening supported Obama by stating they would vote for him. They were not alone.
What Bush and too many other "conservatives" have yet to apprehend is that the problem with "common sense" is that it's all too common - it will tell children that the world is flat and adults that NONheterosexual coupling is "unnatural". It takes a deeper sense of science and gravity to understand why the world is round and a deeper understanding of nature/biology/genetics to understand why sexual orientation is not a "choice" for millions of NONheterosexual and intersexed people the world over. Same-gender sexual coupling is found in many other primates and dozens of other species, so apparently it is "natural" for *some* since it is a part of "nature".
Limited "educational" resources such as the Church/the bible/Fox "news"/Rush Limbaugh lead to limited world views. The good news is no one has to stay "stuck on stupid" and there are plenty who are willing to teach with evidence, not "opinion", for those who are willing to learn. |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
there are clearly a lot of people who need to be educated to the real facts surrounding the matter before a truly democratic decision can be made. |
unfortunatly, uneducated votes make up the majority in this country. That holds true in many instances other the just prop 8. |
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| T.A.S.D. |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
unfortunatly, uneducated votes make up the majority in this country. That holds true in many instances other the just prop 8. |
Ahh, the statement above holds my concurrence. Can it be insinuated that 71% of black people are against civil rights for another group (gays), after they have been the victims of the lack of civil rights equalities up until the 60's? You see, 71% of blacks who came to the polls, 99.9999% of them voting for Obama, voted against gay-marriage. Interesting.
Maybe R!ch not being able to marry his bf now is one of the many reasons his disgruntlements and his apathetic nature is running amuck! Sorry R!ch, but I did indeed tried to help you out there at the polls for this one. |
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| sugar&ice |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Reese
Fact is, if not for the money the Morman church contributed, prop 8 never even gets on the ballot and none of this ever happens. |
:haha: FTW |
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| in2muzikk |
| quote: | Originally posted by T.A.S.D.
Ahh, the statement above holds my concurrence. Can it be insinuated that 71% of black people are against civil rights for another group (gays), after they have been the victims of the lack of civil rights equalities up until the 60's? You see, 71% of blacks who came to the polls, 99.9999% of them voting for Obama, voted against gay-marriage. Interesting. |
I also find this really paradoxical. Of course, most of those people who voted yes would probably claim that it was on religious grounds, a vote against an "immoral lifestyle."
Scientists the world over have substantive evidence that being gay is no more a "choice" than having a different skin color, however (if you're straight, remember the day that you woke up and chose it?) In effect one minority that achieved its freedom has oppressed another that is seeking it...completely appalling if you ask me!
And even if people could "choose" to be straight, gay, or anything in between, we should all have equal rights, so no argument allowing discrimination against others holds for me... |
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| naeblis |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Reese
Fact is, if not for the money the Morman church contributed, prop 8 never even gets on the ballot and none of this ever happens. |
Not true. |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
Scientists the world over have substantive evidence that being gay is no more a "choice" than having a different skin color, however (if you're straight, remember the day that you woke up and chose it?)
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Im pretty sure that when you are born, your parents can tell the color of your skin. Thus you dont really have a choice in the matter. But gay or not, you always have the choice of who your domestic partner is or should be IMO. |
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| sugar&ice |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
Im pretty sure that when you are born, your parents can tell the color of your skin. Thus you dont really have a choice in the matter. But gay or not, you always have the choice of who your domestic partner is or should be IMO. |
So if you are a gay man you should CHOOSE a woman domestic partner?:eyes: |
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| |Thrax| |
| quote: | Originally posted by sugar&ice
So if you are a gay man you should CHOOSE a woman domestic partner?:eyes: |
whatever you feel is right.
you shouldn't be so surprised. |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by sugar&ice
So if you are a gay man you should CHOOSE a woman domestic partner?:eyes: |
personally i dont think you should. But its still a choice, and you better believe that there are gay men and women in heterosexual relation ships in this world. I have known a gay man who married a woman on more then one occasion. |
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| in2muzikk |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
Im pretty sure that when you are born, your parents can tell the color of your skin. Thus you dont really have a choice in the matter. But gay or not, you always have the choice of who your domestic partner is or should be IMO. |
So by extension, interracial marriage should be prohibited as well? A person with a certain skin color can choose to marry or domestic partner with a person of any other skin color. They clearly have a choice in the matter.
But it is not "wrong" anymore because American culture has now indoctrinated it, even though it was considered a scandalous and immoral lifestyle, often for biblical reasons, up until the time it was repealed in 1967.
And if it had not been repealed, would it have been appropriate for a person of once race to deny their love of someone in another race and marry within their own race only to satisfy the current culture's wants and needs?
Just one example of why this "choice" argument has absolutely no merit to me. |
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| sugar&ice |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
personally i dont think you should. But its still a choice, and you better believe that there are gay men and women in heterosexual relation ships in this world. I have known a gay man who married a woman on more then one occasion. |
Did they have sex? |
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