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Mormon Church to Lose Tax Exempt Status by Campaigning for Yes on Prop 8? (pg. 3)
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
So by extension, interracial marriage should be prohibited as well? A person with a certain skin color can choose to marry or domestic partner with a person of any other skin color. They clearly have a choice in the matter.
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i dont think so. very tired of the race comparison, its is very different IMO. I think the %75 of the blacks that voted YES on 8 would agree with me as well.
In my opinion, i think many of the privaleges that are given to married couples are for the intention that married couples are going to procreate and raise a family, which is the basic foundation of our functional society. Race plays no part in this, but homsexuality obviously does. |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by sugar&ice
Did they have sex? |
yes, and they had a kid as well. |
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| |Thrax| |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
i dont think so. very tired of the race comparison, its is very different IMO. I think the %75 of the blacks that voted YES on 8 would agree with me as well.
In my opinion, i think many of the privaleges that are given to married couples are for the intention that married couples are going to procreate and raise a family, which is the basic foundation of our functional society. Race plays no part in this, but homsexuality obviously does. |
BINGO!
To quote Sublime (yea, I was listening to the album this morning)
| quote: |
I step into the great unknown,
with a ball and chain I call my own.
Because marriage doesn't work in the world today
It's an institution that is in decay.
And if I have love I wish to portray,
I will surely find another way.
Because I was always taught boy meets girl,
fall in love get married and forget the world.
Nine months later the sweet babies on the way,
Kiss 'em on the check and lifes ok.
I don't feel no pain, I don't have no time
to listen to conflicting points of view
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by |Thrax|
BINGO!
To quote Sublime (yea, I was listening to the album this morning) |
timeless!
it will never get old! |
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| in2muzikk |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
i dont think so. very tired of the race comparison, its is very different IMO. I think the %75 of the blacks that voted YES on 8 would agree with me as well.
In my opinion, i think many of the privaleges that are given to married couples are for the intention that married couples are going to procreate and raise a family, which is the basic foundation of our functional society. Race plays no part in this, but homsexuality obviously does. |
Yes, I'm sure they would. And you do have the right to your own opinion, as do I.
So that said, I don't see any distinction between being gay or black or white or straight or asian or intersexed or any other member of the human species that is on this earth. We are all part of the same human race, and to give lesser rights to one subset than another is just plain wrong imo. |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
So that said, I don't see any distinction between being gay or black or white or straight or asian or intersexed or any other member of the human species that is on this earth. We are all part of the same human race, and to give lesser rights to one subset than another is just plain wrong imo. |
well, im all for affording rights absent in a civil union that are present in a marriage, so that a marriage and a civil union are afforded equal rights from the state. So if its equal rights you seek, then if I had my way you would be granted them.
A few differences i see, black and white pertain to race, gay or straight pertain to sexuality. Straight couples can procreate, gay couples cannot. That is the major difference in my eyes that cant be denied. |
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| selfEvolution |
Facts verses opinion - Lame arguments about reproduction built on irrational fear, biases, prejudices & sexcentrism.
I'm interested more in the unbiased facts of science and sociology than opinions and "IMHO".
The FACTS are that there are MILLIONS of married heterosexual couples who either will not or cannot have babies - so that argument is mute and stupid and is very telling about those who make it.
Egocentrism occurs when we think the world ought to be how we see it or want it. Sexcentrism, a word I coined for my Master's thesis, to refer to the *opinion* that because we are of one sexual orientation that it is a "choice" and everyone else can easily make the same "choice". Some can, most cannot. The evidence is that minority sexual orientations are killed, beaten, "bashed" discriminated against and told who they can or cannot marry the world over. Who would "choose" that?
I know of ONE gay guy who is married to a woman - he doesn't enjoy it - he did it because he's in a partially "bum-" town in Oklahoma where he faces all of the above atrocities from his heterosexual cohorts if he revels his real orientation.
Further, the notion that marriage is primarily for procreation is very similar to parts of the Nazi philosophy - they killed NONheterosexuals and commanded the blond haired. blue-eyed Aryans to pro-create for "the nation" and to "spread the Aryan race". The Nazi's spared the lives of some Polish women - for the express purpose of being baby factories for them.
So any sick notion that "marriage is mostly about babies" is more akin to communism and socialism than a free democracy, where the *individual* is the social unit and should be held in esteem on their own merits, not based on how many babies they can create for the collective/nation/state in an already over-populated world where jobs are becoming more scarce and food/fuel supplies harder to replenish.
Still further, the argument that heterosexuals (and bisexuals) are primarily baby-factories is lame in the context that BILLIONS (with a B) of heterosexuals will go on procreating no matter how many millions (with an m) of minority orientations get "married". Heterosexuals just keep churning out more and more babies, even when they know, deep down, that unsafe sex can cause HIV/AIDS and a dozen other STD's. No honest person can truthfully say they are not taking a risk with their wife - one of the primary causes of divorce is cheating - and it only takes one time to transfer HIV/AIDS.
Facts verses opinion - "Procreation" is the same lame arguments from the "Yes on Prop", build on biases, prejudices & sexcentrism. When that didn't work, they tried to imply it will "damage children" although this is unproven everywhere that gay marriage is now legal. (Plus, there has been NO decline in baby-production) What fear-mongering lies of theirs will be next ?
I also have a Master's degree in Psychology. That may not mean much to some people, but among other things, it has helped me get a deeper sense of what is really going on in a person's mind and nervous system when they keep overtly displaying all types of logical fallacies to justify their arch fallacies. The evidence is in their lies and arguments which reduce down to no more than judgmental and self-deceiving excuses. Fear is a very ugly thing when it is directed at millions of innocent people, and I sense a lot of fear in the "Yes on Prop 8" people. |
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| selfEvolution |
I forgot to add another obvious reason why the "procreation" argument is so lame ( That is, obviously lame to those who are NOT subconsciously blinded by their judgmental prejudices, hatred and/or fear):
Thanks to the HIV/AIDS epidemic among heterosexuals in many 3rd world countries (where HIV/ADIS began) the number of children in need of adoption numbers in the millions. Gay married couples would be the perfect solution - they usually have two incomes, they are not able to have their own children, and many of them would love to love children as part of their family unit. Pssssss.....don't tell that to those who, in addition to homophobia, still cling to racism, such as all too many "NeoCons", "Neo Nazies and "Skinheads".
Perhaps if their is a god "all-creator" he then might be kinder than the genocidal flood and "jealous god" of the bible equates him to be - perhaps this "all creator" created NONheterosexuals so there would still be enough childless parents around to adopt the parentless children, instead of letting them die of starvation, neglect and disease. But then again, this alleged "god" KNEW what we would do with our "free will" and it's not very pretty. I have faith in humanity, not in invisible gods, and I think humanity can one day rise above it's ignorance, prejudice and archaic thinking based in ancient books of fairy tales.
In most countries NONheterosexuals cannot even live together, much less raise children who very much need adoptive parents. As for the great big lie that "gays are child molesters"- some are, most are not, just like in the heterosexual community. I can give a long list of Republican conservatives arrested for heterosexual child molestation, and about 95% of child molesters in prison are heterosexual - which is a little more pet capita with an estimated 6% of the population being NONheterosexual.
At the age of nine, a friend of mine was in San Fransisco with his father, and he saw two men kissing. He asked his father why they were doing this. His father told him: "You know how me and mommy love each other?. Those two men love each other the same way." It didn't effect my friend, it didn't make him "gay" - it made him a more tolerant and decent human being who now teaches his own children the same respect for diversity and sense of fairness, i.e., emotional intelligence. |
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| sugar&ice |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
yes, and they had a kid as well. |
Are they still happily married? |
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| selfEvolution |
| quote: | Originally posted by sugar&ice
Are they still happily married? |
Does one isolated example of one couple really matter in the context of millions of other less happy couples made less happy because they cannot get married due to lame lies and excuses such as "marriage is about procreation"?
The California Supreme court threw that argument out due the the obvious fact that there are millions of married couples who either cannot, will not or don't want to have children. So if marriage is about "procreation" there are millions of heterosexual couples who should not be married, in keeping with much of the "Yes on 8" twisted logic we've seen. |
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| selfEvolution |
| quote: | | [i][b] Straight couples can procreate, gay couples cannot. That is the major difference in my eyes that cant be denied. |
It can be denied quite easily and readily based on facts, not opinions, unless one's opinions are blinded by their prejudices.
I've enumerated many reasons why it can be denied, chief of which there are millions of married "straight couples" who cannot or will not "procreate" and more than their share of "gay couples" who are willing to adopt children who apparently are caused by of OVER "procreation", among other reasons.
Can you see in your own arguments how your biases look so obvious? NONheterosexuals are our brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles, neighbors and many of them are great music producers. In other words, they are fellow humans who deserve to be treated equality in both action and NAME (marriage). Civilized societies such as Canada and Massachusetts have decided NONheterosexuals deserve NOT AN OUNCE less.
I am not accusing you personally of hate or fear, but one day NONheterosexual marriage will be looked upon as any other marriage by reasonable people, but when most of the rest of our culture evolves above the lies, hate, fear, misunderstanding and disinformation which we've seen from the "Yes on Prop 8 people. Millions of heterosexuals voted "No" because we're all tired of the lies and the insults to our intelligence, with weak arguments such as "procreation" and blind "tradition". |
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| sugar&ice |
I was just curious about his friend.
I don't judge people, or groups of people.
:rolleyes: |
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