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Using a master clock such as Big Ben (pg. 3)
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by CReddick
This wouldn't work because you'd be playing the clip back with your clock source.
Like most have said already, this thread is pointless in a forum like this one. TA producers are not spending $2-6k on a clock for their studios. Thats why you don't see Antelope marketing towards the project studio owners / laptop producers. The fact that industry guys like Jeff Zook, Roger Nichols, and Howie Weinberg (mastering) are dumping these units into all their facilities should say something if you're really serious about mixing.
Howie makes a short vid that is pretty down to earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT36uditN78 |
Whats your background in? You speak like you've used this stuff a fair bit, so do you believe there is a difference, having done AB comparisons?
As far as their endorsements go, I think the one of first things I learnt when looking at gear was to never trust endorsements. What people say they use and what they really use are two different things.
I think I'm with RANN on all of this really... Although I think if master clocks really do make a difference, then there would be a point in EDM producers buying them. Most EDM is made in bedrooms these days, and if you're going to get released, I think you have an obligation to make sure your signal chain is as good as possible. |
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| cryophonik |
While this may be true, my request to hear an A/B sample is still perhaps somewhat valid for two reasons:
1) as already discussed, any recorded audio should theoretically be different, and
2) the person doing the mixing is presumably hearing a more accurate representation of the audio when using a master clock and should, therefore, mix differently when using a clock vs. not; otherwise, what's the point in having an ultra-precise master clock, right? In this case, perhaps my request should probably be for someone to post two different mixes: one in which the producer uses a master clock to get the mix he/she wants, and one in which the producer attempts to get the same mix without a master clock. Obviously, that would be an exercise in futility because of the numerous other confounding factors that would come into play, which leaves me thinking, what's the point anyway?! As I mentioned, I have no intentions of ever wasting my money on one. That said, I'd still like an opportunity to hear the difference for myself, but I guess that will simply require me to check it out the next time I'm in a pro studio.
Regardless - this is a very interesting and informative discussion. I love this forum! |
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| CReddick |
| quote: | | Originally posted by cryophonik That said, I'd still like an opportunity to hear the difference for myself, but I guess that will simply require me to check it out the next time I'm in a pro studio. |
You're on! Too bad you're not any further south or I'd have ya over for an A/B demo. lemme know next time you're in LA! |
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| Ry Thomas |
| DJ RANN - Are these worth getting for syncing digital mixers? |
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| CReddick |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ry Thomas
DJ RANN - Are these worth getting for syncing digital mixers? |
Any device that converts digital to analog benefits from a quality clock source. Less jitter = cleaner D/A conversion.
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Whats your background in? You speak like you've used this stuff a fair bit, so do you believe there is a difference, having done AB comparisons?
As far as their endorsements go, I think the one of first things I learnt when looking at gear was to never trust endorsements. What people say they use and what they really use are two different things.
I think I'm with RANN on all of this really... Although I think if master clocks really do make a difference, then there would be a point in EDM producers buying them. Most EDM is made in bedrooms these days, and if you're going to get released, I think you have an obligation to make sure your signal chain is as good as possible. |
To explain, a very good friend of mine runs the US operations for Antelope Audio. http://antelopeaudio.com/ As somewhat of an audio enthusiast, I'm around for a lot of the R&D at their new studio space in Santa Monica. We're uber nerds. We have 'Terminator Vision' at any digital audio device and try to figure out how we can re-clock it.
I was skeptical of this entire concept before I got to actually hear it for myself. I always kinda knew that a good clock was beneficial, but once you start using these things, you don't ever want to go anywhere without it. Currently, I'm using the OCX at home... but when connected to their 10M atomic add-on, its like a whole new world of audio clarity I didn't even know existed. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ry Thomas
DJ RANN - Are these worth getting for syncing digital mixers? |
Yes, especially with the d8b, as it does both audio conversion and automation. It will not only help audio clarity as Chris mentions, but also with automation timing and the accuracy of fx timing.
You have to decide if the money is worth the improvement - especially as the improvement will only be worth it if you can take advantage of it. By that I mean your studio must be up to the level where minor increases in performance are actually noticeable, so you have to have good monitors, a good interface (d8b) - even cables and power conditioning come in to it at this point.
Antelope are becoming the new standard - they aren't cheap but I've heard nothing but good things about them.
I would say Ry, if you can afford it, go for it, you will notice a difference and as you add other things to your studio, the clock will only become more vital.
By the way, it's not as simple as buying a clock, and what kit you have will greatly affect they way you connect it and what I/o cards you need. For instance you could get the apogee d8b clock card which will reduce jitter and sync extrenal units but when you go above one external unit, some argue it's better to go with an external clock and get the d8b clock I/o card, unless you want to do your snc via adat (not great) or AES/EBU (good)....see what I mean?
Also, Chris, we should talk - we've worked on a lot of the same projects ;) (at different stages though) and I'm based in Santa Monica...... |
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| Existo22 |
Before you make the mistake of buying into the external clock BS I suggest you read this thread.
Let Bob Katz And Dan Lavry explain to you why not to waste your money on something like that.
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/14324/0/
No! word clocks actually introduce more jitter...
This was exposed by dan lavry who creates the Lavry converters and was the guy that created all the early apogee converters that rose the company to fame.
''Converters should be on their own clock'' said the former apogee engineer.
''Apogee is intentionally missleading concumers to think that a word clock will enhance the sound to make money.'' |
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| CReddick |
That thread you link to is misleading.
The linked thread explains that a quality converter shouldn't need an external clock. agreed. However, most mediocre priced gear that us dance music folks use DON'T have the high end technology implemented (quartz crystal). The gear we all have use synthesized clock by either a chip, or (god forbid) software. This is where an external quartz or rubidium oscillator saves the day.
Anyone who has sat down and heard this gear knows what these clocks can do. |
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| Existo22 |
| quote: | Originally posted by CReddick
That thread you link to is misleading.
The linked thread explains that a quality converter shouldn't need an external clock. agreed. However, most mediocre priced gear that us dance music folks use DON'T have the high end technology implemented (quartz crystal). The gear we all have use synthesized clock by either a chip, or (god forbid) software. This is where an external quartz or rubidium oscillator saves the day.
Anyone who has sat down and heard this gear knows what these clocks can do. |
Again a mediocre clock running internally would have better & lower jitter values than a word clock running externally.
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/in...g/14324/0/16/0/
It was closed by someone who makes a living selling these things. lol.
The misconception is that if you would slave a converter to a word clock you are not using the units word clock any more you are using the external. Absolute Bull. The units internal word clock is not bypassed it is constantly trying to sync to the external word clock and that introduces MORE jitter.
Read the thead till the end.
The folks over at gearslutz know this one well by now:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...ry-tape-op.html |
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| CReddick |
| quote: | Originally posted by Existo22
The misconception is that if you would slave a converter to a word clock you are not using the units word clock any more you are using the external. Absolute Bull. The units internal word clock is not bypassed it is constantly trying to sync to the external word clock and that introduces MORE jitter. |
That is absolutely retarded. Again, I'm sure you've never heard any of this gear with your own ears. I'm unsubscribing to the thread. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| I'd like to hear some results for myself, personally... |
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